Agile Mentors Podcast from Mountain Goat Software

#172: The Five Pillars of Agile Transformation with Mike Cohn

Jan 14, 2026

Mike Cohn, veteran agile coach and CEO of Mountain Goat Software, shares a practical Five Pillars framework for lasting change. He discusses using an improvement backlog, distinguishing mindset from practices, redefining roles and teamwork, and engaging stakeholders. Practical tactics for diagnosing gaps and sustaining momentum are highlighted in short, actionable conversation.

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INSIGHT

Mindset Determines Whether Practices Stick

Agile needs both practices and an agile mindset; practices alone won't hold up under crisis.
Mike Cohn notes teams can look agile by doing rituals, but without mindset they abandon practices when stressed.

ADVICE

Use A Transformation Backlog

Create an improvement or transformation backlog listing things you want to get better at.
Mike Cohn advises including expected items like coach training and identifying good scrum masters then adding team-specific improvements.

ADVICE

Clarify Roles But Don't Weaponize RACI

Clarify roles and role changes introduced by Agile, including new roles like product owner and changed developer responsibilities.
Mike Cohn suggests doing the RACI-style discussion to learn, but not to weaponize the chart later.

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Most agile transformations start with energy, and then stall out when things get complex. In this episode, Mike Cohn returns with a practical framework to help teams and leaders spot what’s missing, build lasting momentum, and navigate change with more clarity and intention.

Overview

Agile isn’t just a set of practices—it’s a mindset shift, a role shift, and a culture shift. And without the right support, even the best-intentioned transformation efforts can lose steam. In this episode, Mike Cohn joins Brian to walk through his Five Pillars of Agile Transformation—a practical structure for guiding change that actually sticks.

Whether you're leading a single team or rolling out agile across the organization, this conversation will help you focus your efforts, spot common gaps, and use agile principles to strengthen your transformation from the inside out.

References and resources mentioned in the show:

Mike Cohn
What Happens When One of the Pillars is Missing Graphic
The Five Pillars of a Successful Agile Transformation by Mike Cohn
#102: Communicating Agile Transformations with McCaul Baggett
#110: Overcoming Organizational Dysfunctions with Lucy O’Keefe
#152: The Five Pillars of Real Agile Improvement with Mike Cohn
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This episode’s presenters are:

Brian Milner is a Certified Scrum Trainer®, Certified Scrum Professional®, Certified ScrumMaster®, and Certified Scrum Product Owner®, and host of the Agile Mentors Podcast training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work.

Mike Cohn, CEO of Mountain Goat Software, is a passionate advocate for agile methodologies. Co-founder of Agile Alliance and Scrum Alliance, he thrives on helping companies succeed with Agile and witnessing its transformative impact on individuals' careers. Mike resides in Northern Idaho with his family, two Havanese dogs, and an impressive hot sauce collection.