How to sell vegan foods to meat lovers

It's tough to be a vegetarian in a world full of carnivores. It's even tougher to be a startup selling a vegan egg-substitute into a world full of carnivore-dominated market, but that's exactly what Umami United is doing. Umami United founder Hiro Yamazaki explains that the real diver for vegan-food adoption is not ethics or sustainability, but simple economics.  The startup's market traction seems to show that he and the team are on the right track. We talk about the importance of keeping an open mind about product-market fit, Japan's unusual dietary habits and how to go global on a limited budget. It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it. Show Notes Why are there so few vegetarians in Japan Overcoming the "vegetarian" stigma Why Japan has the world's 2nd highest per-capita egg consumption (really!) The different go-to-market strategies for Japan and overseas Why industrial kitchens want to move away from natural eggs The challenges in restaurant and home use Umami’s global expansion plans Why so many alternative food startups fail, and why Umami is different Why Japan is a perfect food tech market The future of food tech in Japan Links from the Founder Everything you ever wanted to know about Umami United Japanese homepage Umami United blog Check out Hiro's blog Connect with him on LinkedIn Friend him on Facebook Follow him on Twitter @Japanveggie Leave a comment Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight Talk from Japan's most innovative founders and VCs. I'm Tim Romero and thanks for joining me.   Eggs! We are going to talk about eggs and about things that are almost eggs. You know, in researching this episode, I learned far more about the egg industry than, well, more than I thought there was to know about the egg industry. It's complex, surprisingly global and fiercely competitive. Today we sit down with Hiro Yamazaki, the founder and CEO of Umami United, who's making a vegetarian egg substitute that is finding product market fit in overseas markets rather than in Japan. And for reasons that have surprisingly little to do with vegetarianism. Now Hiro and I talk about how to find product market fit when your initial strategy doesn't work out. Like you expect the best strategy for aggressively going global on a limited budget. And why the Japanese eat a hell of a lot more eggs than you probably think they do. I mean, seriously, this country eats so many eggs! It just blows my mind. The data's coming up in the podcast. But you know, Hiro tells that story much better than I can. So, let's get right to the interview. Interview Tim: So, we're sitting here with Hiro Yamazaki of Umami United, who has developed and is now marketing a plant-based egg substitute. So, thanks for sitting down with us. Hiro: Thank you so much for having me. Tim: What you're doing is really interesting. Hiro: Thank you. Tim: So, tell us a bit about the product. What exactly is it you're making? Hiro: Right now we're making a plant-based egg powder product. It's made out of konjaku, it's a root vegetable in Japan.  Specifically, we're focusing on the bakery application right now and baked good. There's so many eggs, but yeah, we are replacing the functional ingredient from the egg. Tim: So, as an egg substitute, is it similar in nutritional value to eggs? Is it similar in sort of the cooking functionality of eggs? What exactly is it substituting for? What part of the egg? Hiro: Yeah, right now we're more focusing on the egg functionality, like the coagulation forming, those kind of characteristics. But we started actually more scramble egg, omelets, those kind of in a savory application at the very beginning. But after one or two years, we decided to more focus on baked goods. Tim: Tell me about your customers. You mentioned that you're focusing on bakeries. Is this like commercial bakeries or more of the industrial side that are feeding, like schools and hospitals? What sort of bakeries? Hiro: Yeah. Most of our customers right now are industrial, like baked goods manufacturers making French kernels or donuts, those kind of things. Tim: I noticed on your website you also have direct to consumer products ss well. Is that more for a marketing? Hiro: Right. We started actually from e-commerce channels, but like you said, it's more like the marketing perspective. Tim: Okay. And the main positioning, is it for health benefits or vegetarian vegan lifestyle compliance? What's the main selling point? Hiro: Yeah, there are two big categories. One is the vegan, vegetarian, or allergy free. We call it like dietary restrictions. And then the other one is more supply cost because of the broad flu, avian flu. We're having that in every two or three years. And that's a huge issue in the industry because the cost and the supply is not stable. So, that's why our clients are looking for an ex-substitute, not only because of the vegan allergy reason, but also this supply chain issues. Tim: Yeah, actually I want to get back to that and dig into it much more deeply. But before we do that, I want to ask a little bit about you. I mean, you founded Umami United in December, 2021. But you've been involved in this alternative foods movement for quite a while. You also founded an organization called Plant-based Japan. Tell me a bit about that project. Hiro: Plant-Based Japan is kind of a media and consulting company focusing on the plant-based industry because back then a lot of the tourists coming to Japan after the Olympic game. There's so many demands about the veganism, the vegetarianism, but we did not have much options here in Japan. So that's why a lot of tourists needed the vegan, vegetarian information to find out like the specific products or restaurant. Tim: Yeah. But on a personal level are you a vegan or vegetarian yourself? How did you get interested in this particular space? Hiro: So, I used to be a vegan for a year or something, but it's not because I was vegan that I started to become in interested in this industry, but more like back to my, the college student. So, I was actually a volunteer tour guide in Tokyo. But the food dietary restrictions like a vegan, vegetarian, like halal, kosher, so many customers cannot dine together. Then I become interested in this, the food and diversity. Tim: That makes sense. It explains why kind of the plant-based Japan was the next logical step. Is trying to solve that problem. Hiro: Right, right. Yeah. Tim: Awesome. Let's look at the bigger market again. Japan is interesting in that, I mean, the Japanese diet is pretty healthy overall, but my impression is that there's not a lot of vegetarians or vegans in Japan. Hiro: It's very few. Yeah. Tim: So. has that limited the interest in this kind of a product in Japan? Hiro: Yes. I think it affects on limitation for the sales and the marketing for sure. But interestingly, yeah, Japan had a long history that we could not eat meat in over 1000 years, the meat consumption was banned. Tim: You have to go way back, but yeah, that's true. That is true. Hiro: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Kind of funny. Yeah. Tim: Not so much anymore. So, what's driving it in Japan? Is it companies trying to serve that niche market of vegans and vegetarians or is it allergies or is it something else? Hiro: Yeah, there are few, like you mentioned, allergy is one of that, but it's only for the egg categories. But like for meat industry, like it's a different story. Companies are trying to solve more sustainable goals and also inbound. There are so many foreign tourists right now. There's huge demands. Tim: So, it's important to have those vegetarian or vegan options. Hiro: Right, right. Tim: So, in researching for this article, I learned a lot more than I expected about eggs in Japan. So, so Japanese people eat a lot of eggs. Hiro: Yeah. Japan is actually the second largest consumption of egg per capita. One of that number one is Mexico. I don't know why it's Mexico. But Japan is number two. Tim: That kind of blows my mind. So, I mean, on one hand it's great, the market's big, but it's confusing because how like Japanese traditional cuisine doesn't use a lot of eggs and Japan still overwhelmingly rice instead of bread. So, who is eating all these eggs? Hiro: I have no actual data, but like, this is my observation, but Japanese people would love to eat like a raw egg. A raw egg on top of the rice. If you go to like the gyudon’s place or pokeball place, there are so many like eggs on topping. I think that's one of the reasons. Tim: It's true. An awful lot of salads will have egg in it. Hiro: Right, right. So, we use eggs than we expected, I guess. And we also consume a lot of baked goods. But I also really, get surprised Japan is actually number two country. Tim: So, let's talk about your go-to market in Japan and then how you're looking at it overseas. In Japan, you mentioned your focus on industrial kitchens. So, mass market based goods. So, what is the value that your customer sees it? Hiro: So again, there are two, especially in Japan, most of our customers are using our products for their vegan or gluten-free applications. So special diet. Some of our potential customers trying to use it for reducing the accuses for their recipe because of the supply chain price issue. But when we talk to like US based manufacturers, it's a different story. In the US most of our prospects are trying to use our product for their cost supply issues because the egg supply is really, really unstable in the US. Tim: What is the price point for umami eggs versus natural eggs? Hiro: If the customers use our product for their baked goods, most of the cases cheaper compared to the egg. Of course, depending on the purchasing volume and then the act price because it always up and down. Tim: Well,