The Schumacher Lectures

We can’t get There from Here: Carbon, Climate and the Call to Wonder - Paul Hawken & Báyò Akómoláfé

Dec 3, 2025
Paul Hawken, a renowned environmentalist and author, teams up with philosopher Báyò Akómoláfé, exploring profound thoughts on climate and connection. They challenge conventional views, emphasizing that carbon is not a villain but a vital element of life. Discussions unveil the limitations of solutionism and highlight the importance of relational approaches. They advocate for addressing root causes over mere fixes, and emphasize care and relational agency, urging listeners to embrace uncertainty and a new politics of emergence.
Ask episode
AI Snips
Chapters
Books
Transcript
Episode notes
ANECDOTE

Plastic Solutions Miss The Point

  • Báyò describes meetings with CEOs trying to extract ocean plastic using technologies while plastics persist and now exist inside human bodies.
  • He uses this to show the futility of treating pollution as external when we are already materially entangled with it.
ADVICE

Go Upstream To Find The Cause

  • Paul urges moving upstream to address root causes instead of downstream 'end-of-pipe' solutions.
  • He advises finding who's throwing people into the river rather than repeatedly rescuing victims.
INSIGHT

Beware Profit-Driven Tech Fixes

  • Paul criticizes techno-fixes like direct air capture as energy-inefficient fixes that can be exploited for profit.
  • He warns corporatism will fund unworkable solutions when money is to be made.
Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode
Get the app