
We can’t get There from Here: Carbon, Climate and the Call to Wonder - Paul Hawken & Báyò Akómoláfé
Dec 3, 2025
Paul Hawken, a renowned environmentalist and author, teams up with philosopher Báyò Akómoláfé, exploring profound thoughts on climate and connection. They challenge conventional views, emphasizing that carbon is not a villain but a vital element of life. Discussions unveil the limitations of solutionism and highlight the importance of relational approaches. They advocate for addressing root causes over mere fixes, and emphasize care and relational agency, urging listeners to embrace uncertainty and a new politics of emergence.
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Plastic Solutions Miss The Point
- Báyò describes meetings with CEOs trying to extract ocean plastic using technologies while plastics persist and now exist inside human bodies.
- He uses this to show the futility of treating pollution as external when we are already materially entangled with it.
Go Upstream To Find The Cause
- Paul urges moving upstream to address root causes instead of downstream 'end-of-pipe' solutions.
- He advises finding who's throwing people into the river rather than repeatedly rescuing victims.
Beware Profit-Driven Tech Fixes
- Paul criticizes techno-fixes like direct air capture as energy-inefficient fixes that can be exploited for profit.
- He warns corporatism will fund unworkable solutions when money is to be made.














