South America in Competition Conference: Bonus Episode 2

Nov 7, 2025

Dr. John Stockton, co-founder of Quantifind, specializes in AI-driven OSINT tools for tracking illicit financial networks, emphasizing their importance for both banking and federal applications. Catherine Woods from the Institute for Financial Integrity delves into the complexities of mirror transfers and Chinese-linked money laundering. She explores the historical context of these practices and the implications for international policy. Both guests highlight the crucial need for cross-sector collaboration in combating these financial illicit flows.

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ADVICE

Share OSINT To Build Trust

Share OSINT openly with partner nations and NGOs to build trust and aid prosecutions.
Use civilian partners to amplify transparency and counter opaque adversary influence like China's.

ANECDOTE

NGOs Supply Critical Signals

Investigative NGOs and specialized civil groups provide focused signals that complement horizontal OSINT models.
These feedback loops help modelers surface domain-specific indicators for prosecution and reporting.

INSIGHT

Mirror Transfers Mask Cross‑Border Value

Chinese capital flight pairs with cartel cash via mirror transfers to move value without cross-border wires.
Dollars stay in the US while yuan stay in China, masking cross-border value movement and complicating detection.

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Episode 140 is a bonus episode built out of conversations held with panelists from the 2025 Irregular Warfare Initiative and Special Operations Association of America South America in Competition Conference.

The South America in Competition Conference brought together over 250 researchers, practitioners, and members of industry for two days at the Carahsoft Headquarters in the DC area. The first day included panel discussions on irregular warfare challenges in the South America region. The second day included a detailed wargame with participation from a range of stakeholders, planned by the IWI Wargaming Division.

For this bonus episode, IWI Podcast Host Jackie Giunta recorded three short conversations with conference participants following their panel presentations.

First, IWI podcast host Jackie Giunta is joined by Dr. John Stockton, co-founder of Quantifind, Dave Cook from the Special Operations Association of America, and Dr. Ryan Berg from the Americas Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies to discuss using open source intelligence to track illicit financial networks. Next, Catherine Woods from the Institute for Financial Integrity discusses illicit financial flows and tools of economic statecraft to counter them. Last, Phil Fuster, a Vice President at SpyCloud, further discusses the importance of OSINT and the need to refocus on relationships in South America.

Introducing and closing the episode are Doug Livermore, the IWI Director of Engagements, and Umar Ahmed Badami, Director of the IWI Wargaming Division. They also both planned this major event. Kyle Atwell provided editorial support for this episode.

If you have an idea for a future event or war-game IWI should run, want to get involved in events, or want to provide material support so IWI can continue these important conversations - reach out to Doug or Umar directly.

All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project.

Intro music: “Unsilenced” by Ketsa
Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa