Where Is God? Eucharist, Trauma, and Divine Presence in Poland (Ela Wyrzykowska) Ep. #227

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Nov 20, 2025

Dr. Elżbieta Łazarewicz-Wyrzykowska, a Polish biblical scholar, dives into profound questions of divine presence stemming from her experiences in war-torn Warsaw. She discusses her unique approach combining Hebrew scriptures and psychology, particularly how Catholics identify the Eucharist as a primary representation of God's presence. Elżbieta also highlights the influence of Mikhail Bakhtin on interpreting disobedience in the Book of Amos, bridging her literary roots with theological insights to explore complex intersections of faith and trauma.

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ANECDOTE

From Polish Literature To Fluent Hebrew

Her academic path moved from Polish literature to Hebrew studies, including a year at Tel Aviv University where she became fluent in modern Hebrew.
She found modern Hebrew learning made biblical Hebrew come alive and deepened her biblical studies.

INSIGHT

Bakhtin Frames God As Author Of Israel

Bakhtin's ideas of dialogical thinking and polyphony inspired Elżbieta to see scripture's philosophical and ethical layers.
She used Bakhtin to analyze creator-creation relations in Amos, treating God as author shaping Israel's ethical form.

INSIGHT

Disobedience As Anti-Creation In Amos

She reads Amos as diagnosing social transgressions as anti-creation that self-destruct Israel's form as God's work.
Violating social laws undermines Israel's shape as a created community and opposes the creator's intent.

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Where is God present—and how do believers describe it?

In this thoughtful and poetic episode, Polish theologian Dr. Elżbieta Łazarewicz-Wyrzykowska joins Dru Johnson to reflect on theology, trauma, and spiritual presence. From her childhood in Warsaw—where bullet holes and tanks marked the legacy of war—to her academic path through Hebrew Bible, literary theory, and empirical psychology, Elżbieta has never stopped asking difficult questions.

They discuss her research into the Book of Amos using the philosophical insights of Mikhail Bakhtin, seeing God as the “author” of Israel and disobedience as a form of anti-creation. They also explore her current interdisciplinary work in the psychology of religion: “We tried to measure where people locate God’s presence. Eucharist was the one thing people named first.”

She reflects on the tension between empirical categories and theological meaning: “God is present in special objects” didn’t resonate. But “God is present in the Eucharist”? That made sense. “I still wanted to be faithful to what the community told me.”

This episode is a masterclass in humility, scholarship, and the quiet brilliance of a scholar working at the intersection of Scripture, philosophy, trauma, and pastoral care.

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Chapters:

00:00 Introduction and Personal Background
02:49 Warsaw: A City of Resilience
06:06 The Impact of Historical Trauma
08:41 Academic Journey in Hebrew Bible Studies
11:49 Literary and Philosophical Approaches to the Hebrew Bible
14:35 Interdisciplinary Work and Its Challenges
17:38 Exploring Bakhtin's Influence
20:31 The Book of Amos: A Case Study
23:42 Theological Measures and Empirical Research
26:35 The Role of Practical Theology
29:45 Conclusion and Future Directions