223 - Michael Graziano: Consciousness, Animal Minds, and the Neuroscience of Suffering

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Michael Graziano is Professor of Psychology and Neuroscience at Princeton University, where he and his lab research the brain basis of consciousness. This is Michael’s second appearance on Robinson’s Podcast. In episode #169, they discussed Michael’s Attention Schema Theory of consciousness, in which consciousness is a way in which the brain models attention to better organize and monitor itself. In this conversation, Robinson and Michael reexamine the Attention Schema Theory with an eye toward the problem of studying the consciousness not only of humans, but of other animals, and with particular regard to the moral questions surrounding animals’ roles in our lives. Michael’s most recent book is Rethinking Consciousness (W. W. Norton, 2019).

Rethinking Consciousness: https://a.co/d/8euR1EL

Graziano Lab: https://grazianolab.princeton.edu

OUTLINE

00:00 Introduction

04:28 Michael’s Interest in Consciousness

07:22 What Is Consciousness?

16:03 Is there a Magical Essence to Consciousness?

28:43 How Did Consciousness Evolve?

35:29 Testing Michael’s Model of Consciousness

44:55 What’s It Like to Be a Human?

48:25 Is Human Suffering an Illusion?

54:07 The Neuroscience of Pain and Suffering

01:00:39 Is There Value to Human Life?

01:10:42 Was Helen Keller Conscious?

01:21:15 The Global Workspace Theory of Consciousness

01:30:20 Do Animals Value Their Own Lives?

01:41:23 Are Shrimp Conscious?

01:52:23 Should Science Inform Morality?

01:54:03 Can Chickens Suffer?

01:57:12 Are Salmon Conscious?

02:09:40 Are Octopuses Conscious?

02:22:43 Are Poultry Conscious?

02:29:43 Are Barnyard Animals Conscious?

Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University. Join him in conversations with philosophers, scientists, historians, economists, and everyone in-between.