The David Frum Show The End of the American Empire
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Nov 19, 2025 
Margaret MacMillan, an esteemed historian and professor at the University of Toronto and Oxford, joins the conversation to explore the fading influence of the United States on the global stage. They discuss whether the U.S. operates as an empire and the signs of its decline. MacMillan highlights how unilateral actions and economic policies reflect an abandonment of international norms, while considering the potential rise of alternatives like China. Their engaging dialogue uncovers the historical roots of America’s current role and the challenges that lie ahead.
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Norm Erosion Breeds Global Disorder
- MacMillan and Frum note U.S. withdrawal from rules and norms invites others to follow suit and undermines global stability.
- They link this norm erosion to recent U.S. actions like unilateral threats toward Venezuela and tariff politicization.
Trumpism As A Reaction To Decline
- Frum suggests 'Trumpism' is a psychological response to perceived American decline: assert dominance regionally while retreating globally.
- He argues postwar liberal order is being replaced by 19th-century-style zones of influence, reducing U.S. global engagement.
Zones Of Influence Invite Backlash
- MacMillan warns zones of influence provoke instability and resentment among peoples who don't choose domination.
- Historical U.S. interventions in Latin America show these approaches often backfire and breed anti-Americanism.
