Elevator Systems - Bowen Family Systems Theory

S3 Ep15 Retirement with Kathleen Kerr

Oct 14, 2025

Kathleen Kerr, a clinical nurse specialist and Bowen Theory expert, delves into the complexities of retirement as a systems event rather than just an individual transition. She shares insights on the impact of family history and societal trends on retirement expectations. The discussion also touches on common assumptions between spouses, the importance of differentiation of self, and leadership succession in families and organizations, illustrated through examples from the TV show 'Succession'. Kathleen encourages thoughtful planning to navigate these significant changes.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Books

Transcript

Episode notes

INSIGHT

Equilibrium Shifts With Retirement

Retirement disturbs a system's equilibrium like adding or losing a member.
The disruption depends on the retiring person's importance and function in that system.

ANECDOTE

Retirement Announcement That Invited Curiosity

Kathleen described an impressive retirement announcement from her retinologist that showed clear planning.
The letter reflected deliberate thinking and invited patient curiosity about his next chapter.

INSIGHT

Research Misses Family Ripples

Retirement research often measures stress only in the retiree, missing family ripple effects.
Unmeasured symptoms can emerge in spouses, children, and grandchildren after retirement shifts.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

Welcome to Elevator Systems! For this episode of the podcast Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White had the privilege of speaking with, recently retired, Kathy Kerr about the way Bowen family systems theory is useful in retirement.

Kathleen Kerr is a clinical nurse specialist and started her private practice in 1975. She was on the faculty of the Bowen Center from 1978 to 2012 and is a founding Board member of the Bowen Theory Academy. Her interests and published articles have included topics such as: aging and the family, applying Bowen theory to organizations, different kinds of systems thinking, healthcare and Bowen theory in the emergency room, and mother-offspring relationships. For this work, Kathleen was given access to the data from the longitudinal research on chimpanzees begun by Jane Goodall.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

How retirement is a systems event rather than an individual one.
Thinking through expectations and assumptions around retirement.
What to consider in the transition of leadership at work and in the family.
The role of differentiation of self as individuals and work systems prepare for a retirement.
The usefulness of knowing family history and previous generations experience with retirement as well as societal influences at those times.
Examples include: personal examples from work and the family, the television show “Succession”, and the idea of “passing the baton”

This episode is for individuals, families, and those in the workplace experiencing retirement personally or in their system.

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

The Murray Bowen Archives Project
Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan!

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Aging #Retirement #Retiring #Work #Leadership #NextGeneration #PasstheBaton #Succession #Anxiety#MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.