Content Warning: This episode mentions the existence of both suicidal ideation and sex. Please use your discretion when deciding whether or not to watch/listen.
What does real healing require? In this episode of The Aliveness Project: Conversations on Connection, host Iris McAlpin Garrett sits down with physician, researcher, and bestselling author Dr. Lissa Rankin and NARM founder Dr. Laurence Heller to explore the intersection of spirituality and healing from the effects of developmental trauma.
Drawing on her experience as both a physician and an IFS educator, Lissa shares her story of leaving a successful career in OB-GYN medicine after facing profound moral injury, eventually leading her to study with pioneers in mind-body-spirit medicine. Together with Larry, she unpacks the complexities of spiritual bypassing, the allure of bliss-seeking, and the danger of premature transcendence. The conversation explores the nuanced intersections of medicine, psychotherapy, and spirituality—asking an important question: How do we know when we're healed, or when we may be trying to convince ourselves that our healing work is done?
🎧 The Aliveness Project: Conversations on Connection is created and produced by the NARM Training Institute.
🎬 Post-production, editing, and audio mixing/mastering by Tim Skipper (IG: @timmyskip).
About Lissa:
Lissa Rankin, MD, is an OB/GYN physician, author of seven books, founder of the Whole Health Medicine Institute and the non-profit Heal At Last, and an encaustic artist who researches radical remission, trauma-informed medicine, and spiritual healing. She teaches memoir writing for therapeutic purposes, in addition to being an educator of Internal Family Systems (IFS). Lissa is currently co-writing her eighth book with Harvard psychiatrist Dr. Jeffrey Rediger about the link between relational trauma and medical illness, focusing on how healthy boundaries and Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy can help reverse diseases related to nervous system dysregulation caused by traumatizing relationships. She thrives on daily hikes in nature, dancing, singing, writing, DJ’ing music whenever she can, playing with her dog Gaia, and healthy gourmet cooking.
You can find Lissa on her website at https://lissarankin.com/ or on social media…
IG: @LissaRankin
FB: facebook.com/lissarankin/
Youtube: youtube.com/user/LissaRankin
About Larry:
Laurence Heller, PhD is the creator of the NeuroAffective Relational Model® (NARM®), founder of the NARM Training Institute, international trainer, and co-author of Healing Developmental Trauma: How Early Trauma Affects Self-Regulation, Self-Image and the Capacity for Relationship, now published in fifteen different languages. Dr. Heller has a PhD in clinical psychology and has conducted NARM trainings and case consultations for thousands of therapists throughout the United States and Europe. His new book Healing Shame and Guilt is set to be published in May 2026.
You can find Larry and the NARM Training Institute at https://narmtraining.com/, at https://drlaurenceheller.com/ or on social media...
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/narm-training-institute
FB: https://www.facebook.com/NARMTraining
Special Thanks
To the NARM Training Institute team—Lindsey Smith, Olga Piontkowski, Emily Scott, and Tue Kjær—for invaluable production support, and to Tim Skipper for his outstanding post-production, editing, and creative work.
The Aliveness Project: Conversations on Connection 
