Ep 326 Interview Sessions with Jessica Fern & David Cooley | From Shame To Learn - Transforming the Shame Triangle

In this episode of the Always Better Than Yesterday Podcast, host Ryan Hartley sits down with psychotherapist and author Jessica Fern, alongside restorative justice facilitator David Cooley.Together, they explore the core ideas behind their book Transforming the Shame Triangle, unpacking how shame is formed, how it operates internally, and how it shapes our relationships, leadership, and sense of self.Drawing on Internal Family Systems (IFS), attachment theory and restorative practices, Jessica and David introduce the concept of the Shame Triangle — a powerful framework that explains the internal dynamics many of us experience daily.Through this conversation, they reveal how our inner critic, shame responses, and coping strategies are not flaws, but adaptive parts shaped by our upbringing, culture and lived experiences.The conversation explores the power of:• Understanding the inner critic, shame and escape patterns• Transforming internal conflict into self-leadership• Moving from adversarial thinking to restorative thinking• Nervous system awareness and emotional regulation• Building relationships rooted in safety, honesty and repairAt its heart, this episode is about moving from survival patterns into authentic living — transforming shame into self-awareness, compassion and connection.About Transforming the Shame TriangleTransforming the Shame Triangle introduces a practical framework for understanding and healing internal shame patterns.The model identifies three key internal dynamics:• The Inner Critic (judgement and attack)• The Shame Part (internalised unworthiness)• The Escapers (coping and avoidance strategies)The work guides people toward transformation into a Self-Love Triangle, where:• The inner critic becomes an inner coach• Shame softens into authentic experience• Escapers become inner nurturersThe goal is to help individuals:• Break repetitive emotional patterns• Develop self-awareness and compassion• Improve relationships and communication• Lead themselves and others more effectivelyThose with ears, let them hear.Always love,RyanConnect with Jessica & DavidJessica Fern: https://jessicafern.comDavid Cooley: https://www.restorativeconversations.comConnect with Always Better Than YesterdayWebsite: https://abty.co.uk/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alwaysbetterthanyesterdayuk/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/abty/Men’s Group (Akira): https://abty.co.uk/akiraJoin our mailing list: https://abty.co.uk/contactSign up for coaching: https://abty.co.uk/coachingPlease email questions and reflections to:podcast@abty.co.ukChapters: 00:00 – Introduction and guest overview02:00 – What is restorative justice in relationships05:00 – Introducing the Shame Triangle08:00 – Inner critic, shame and escapers explained12:00 – Social conditioning and shame16:00 – Shame in relationships and conflict20:00 – Transforming shame into self-love23:00 – Conditional vs unconditional love26:00 – Attachment and relational safety30:00 – Leadership and self-leadership34:00 – Speaking from parts vs for parts38:00 – Collective division and binary thinking42:00 – Building shame-free leadership cultures45:00 – Healing, practices and nervous system work49:00 – Generational shame and inheritance52:00 – Heartprint and legacy#AlwaysBetterThanYesterday #RyanHartley #JessicaFern #DavidCooley #ShameTriangle #SelfLeadership #EmotionalHealing #RelationalIntelligence #PersonalGrowth #ConsciousLeadership