Church and Empire

May 1, 2026

Santiago Ramos, a Vatican diplomacy expert and former colleague, returns to unpack the clash between the Pope and the Trump administration. They trace the escalation, explore just war versus holy war, and probe the Vatican’s defense of the postwar international order. The conversation also covers moral authority in politics, Hegseth’s divine rhetoric, and why an English-speaking pope matters for public resonance.

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INSIGHT

Pope Applying Just War Principles To Iran War

Just war theory gives concrete criteria (just cause, legitimate authority, right intention, last resort, proportionality) to judge conflicts, and Pope Leo is invoking those against the Iran war.
Santiago Ramos contrasts just war with holy war and notes Trump’s rhetoric (bombing civilian infrastructure) violates proportionality and intent.

INSIGHT

Vatican Defends Postwar Global Order

The Vatican cares about a post‑WWII global order and sees each unilateral American war as eroding international institutions that protect the common good.
Santiago Ramos cites John XXIII’s Pacem in Terris and the Vatican’s faith in the UN and international law.

INSIGHT

An American Pope Makes Vatican Critique Resonant

Pope Leo’s identity (English‑speaking, American background, social‑media literate) makes his critiques unusually salient to U.S. audiences and harder for conservatives to dismiss.
Christine Emba notes his Chicago roots and pop‑pope visibility expanded public engagement.

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The Iran war has produced an unlikely main character: the Pope. This week, our dear friend and former colleague Santiago Ramos returns to the pod. He joins Christine and Damir to unpack the escalating clash between the Trump administration and the Catholic Church over the war, Trump’s various blasphemies, and JD Vance’s remarkable journey from Catholic conversion to, well, rediscovering Protestantism. The conversation then turns to more interesting matters.

What does the Catholic tradition actually say about just war, and does anyone in Washington care? Santi argues that the real story isn’t just about applying just war principles — it’s about the Vatican’s deeper commitment to a post-WWII global order that it sees every American war chipping away at. He draws a sharp distinction between just war and holy war, arguing that Secretary of War Pete Hegseth’s invocations of divine mandate are what really set off the Pope.

Christine is fascinated by the public’s unexpected hunger for moral authority in a cynical age — and by the spectacle of a charismatic, English-speaking, social-media-fluentAmerican pope suddenly becoming the most compelling critic of the administration.

And Damir, true to form, grants the Pope his due as a political operator while insisting that the real story is simpler: while this is a stupid war with no rationale, the savvy Pope saw an opportunity to play politics. The conversation ends with an unlikely convergence, as Christine gets Damir to all but confess his belief in original sin.

Required Reading:

* Christine Emba, “What a Catholic Church Unafraid of Donald Trump Means to the World” (NYT).

* Ross Douthat, “Trump’s Blasphemy is a Warning” (NYT).

* Jacques Maritain on just war (Commonweal).

* Pope John XXIII, Pacem in Terris (Vatican).

* Phil Klay on just war principles and the Iran war (YouTube).

* Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, “How Trump Took the U.S. to War With Iran” (NYT).

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