186: How to Design Products That Drive Real Behavior Change with Roos van Duijnhoven

Too many product teams fall into a dangerous trap—they optimize for in-app engagement while forgetting the bigger picture: real behavior change.

In my latest episode of No Hacks Snacks, I sat down with Roos van Duijnhoven to break down the difference between:

✅ Designing for engagement – Keeping users interacting with your product.
✅ Designing for behavior change – Helping users take action outside the product.

Take fitness apps as an example:
🏋️‍♂️ Liking workouts & setting goals? Engagement.
🏃‍♂️ Actually going for a run? Behavior change.

We also explored:
🔹 The Little e vs. Big E framework for building better products
🔹 Why engagement ≠ impact (and what to measure instead)
🔹 How to create long-term value, not just short-term wins

💡 If you’re in UX, growth, or product design, this conversation is a must-watch!

Are you designing for engagement or behavior change? Drop your thoughts in the comments! 👇

No Hacks is a podcast about web performance, technical SEO, and the agentic web. Hosted by Slobodan "Sani" Manic.