Stuff They Don't Want You To Know Mind Games: an Interview with Zoë Lescaze
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Mar 27, 2026 Zoë Lescaze, journalist and author who created the Mind Games podcast, explores neuro-linguistic programming, hypnosis, and their cultural afterlives. She traces NLP's 1970s origins, explains techniques like anchoring and double inductions, and recounts scandals from pickup artistry to cult misuse. The conversation also touches on memory controversies, hypnobirthing ties, and surprising ethical questions around persuasion.
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Eye Movement Lore Came From NLP
- Many common pop-psychology tells, like eye movement reading, trace back to NLP's system mapping eye direction to thought processes.
- Practitioners used those mappings to tailor language (visual, auditory, kinesthetic) to persuade clients or customers.
EMDR Emerged From An NLP Background
- EMDR's founder Francine Shapiro began as an NLP practitioner and borrowed eye-movement ideas, then pursued clinical trials that NLP's founders avoided.
- EMDR became evidence-based while NLP remained labeled pseudoscience despite shared roots.
Bandler's 1986 Homicide Trial Shook NLP
- In 1986 Richard Bandler and an associate were present when Corrine Christensen was shot; both men blamed each other and the case became national tabloid fodder.
- The trial, bail support from his contacts, and media circus deeply affected NLP's public image.
