Maybe Trump doesn’t care if the economy tanks—maybe he believes he can play it all to his advantage. And maybe, through a lot of pain, this is the only way America’s going to learn its lesson.

Guest: Jonathan Last, editor of The Bulwark

Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What Next - The Upside Of Tariffs