If you thought the Culture War was a recent invention, you’d be wrong. Investigative mischief-maker JON RONSON joins us to explain how its roots run a lot deeper than you might think – as he learned from making his new podcast series Things Fell Apart. Plus, are progressive politics finally turning the corner? The Guardian’s RAFAEL BEHR on the difference between where Starmer is and where he needs to be. And what will the NEXT Culture War be about?

• “If you fill your head with ideology then there is no room for curiosity.” – JON RONSON

• “The Government only has two approaches: total lockdown or Plague Party.” – NAOMI SMITH

• “There is no Blairism left in the Labour Party. But there is anti-Corbynism.” – RAF BEHR

• “Every generation wants to solve the problems of the previous one.” – JON RONSON

• “Brexit was sold on controlling the borders – but you can’t do that if you only control one side of the border.” – RAF BEHR

Listen to Jon Ronson’s Things Fell Apart: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0011cpr

Back us at www.patreon.com/ohgodwhatnow

Presented by Ros Taylor with Naomi Smith. Assistant producers: Jacob Archbold and Jelena Sofronijevic. Audio production by Alex Rees. Theme music by Cornershop. Group Editor: Andrew Harrison. OH GOD, WHAT NOW? is a Podmasters production.

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The Fiat Standard - Saifedean Ammous