The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert George Saunders (Extended) | Late Show Book Club
Mar 23, 2026
George Saunders, a prize-winning novelist known for wit and compassion, talks obsessively about revision and imagining a kinder reader. He explores why fiction helps us face hard truths and how deathbed stories probe repentance. He also discusses writing routines, battling writer's block, and literary influences like Flannery O'Connor and Chekhov.
28:56
Prioritize Revision Over Perfect First Drafts
- Make revision your primary craft: treat first drafts as disposable and rely on repeated passes to find your real voice.
- George Saunders teaches students to trust their discrimination and improve text through hundreds of micro-choices over time.
Fiction Helps Recalibrate Truth Perception
- Fiction recalibrates readers' relation to truth by modeling truthful encounters in a concentrated way.
- Saunders likens persistent political lying to being served 'turds under a silver dome' and says art helps restore basic sanity.
Imagined Stories Unlock Honest Conversation
- Fiction frees you from literal accuracy so you can reach essential human truths across differences.
- Saunders cites mediators using Chekhov to let disputing parties speak honestly about fictional characters instead of themselves.
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Intro
00:00 • 1min
Saunders on Revision and the Ideal Reader
01:22 • 2min
Beating Writer's Block with Revision
03:04 • 1min
Art's Role During Dark Times
04:32 • 2min
Fiction as Freedom and Empathy Tool
06:18 • 1min
Late Show Book Club & Vigil Announcement
07:39 • 1min
Where Ghosts Come From in Saunders' Work
08:46 • 2min
Ad break
10:54 • 32sec
Describing Vigil in One Sentence
11:26 • 37sec
Why Deathbed Stories Resonate
12:04 • 37sec
Repentance, Buddhism, and De-sinning
12:40 • 2min
Where Saunders Finds Inspiration
14:45 • 1min
Why He Writes in Quiet
16:05 • 1min
Literature as Continuous Mental Writing
17:18 • 53sec
What Book to Bring to a Deserted Island
18:11 • 48sec
Favorite Children's Books to Read Aloud
18:59 • 2min
Teaching Writing: The Power of Micro Choices
20:42 • 2min
Story Club, Substack, and Close Reading
23:02 • 2min
Writing Routine and Daily Practice
25:16 • 3min
Outro
27:57 • 1min
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The Hundred Dresses
Jim Stelljes
Estes
Eleanor Estes
Louis Slobodkin
The Hundred Dresses by Eleanor Estes tells the story of Wanda Petronski, a Polish-American girl who claims to own many dresses but is mocked by classmates, leading to regret and a lesson in empathy.
The novel explores themes of bullying, guilt, and the moral growth of children who realize their complicity in harming another.
Told in a clear, compassionate style, the book encourages readers to consider the effects of their assumptions and the importance of standing up for others.
Its enduring status in children's literature comes from its emotional honesty and ethical clarity.
Saunders recalls the book's simple but powerful lesson about never assuming you know someone's circumstances.
#4818
• Mentioned in 10 episodes
Vigil
Jeffrey Wasserstrom
Vigil: Hong Kong on the Brink provides a comprehensive overview of Hong Kong's political landscape, from its post-war boom to the recent protests.
The book delves into the context leading to the Umbrella Movement and the 2019 protests, offering insights into the city's unique political system and key figures involved.
Wasserstrom's narrative brings readers to the forefront of the battle for democracy in Hong Kong.
#
The Enduring Chill
Flannery O'Connor
"The Enduring Chill" is a short story by Flannery O'Connor that follows a character confronting illness and spiritual emptiness, showcasing O'Connor's blend of dark comedy and moral inquiry.
The narrative probes themes of self-centeredness and the inability to see one's moral failures, often culminating in a moment of forced clarity or suffering.
O'Connor's sharp dialogue and striking imagery render the protagonist's inner desolation palpable, while her Catholic sensibility frames the story's moral tensions.
The piece exemplifies the author's talent for making grotesque or extreme situations reveal deeper ethical and spiritual truths.
Its melancholic tone and ironic structure make it a memorable example of mid-20th-century American short fiction.
#11030
• Mentioned in 5 episodes
Dead Souls
Nikolai Vasilievich Gogol
Written in the early 19th century, 'Dead Souls' is a significant piece of Russian literature that satirizes the social and bureaucratic systems of Tsarist Russia.
The novel chronicles the travels and adventures of Pavel Ivanovich Chichikov, who seeks to purchase the rights to 'dead souls' from landowners.
These 'dead souls' are deceased serfs that landowners are still taxed for, and Chichikov plans to use them to secure a bank loan and become wealthy.
The novel is known for its vivid depiction of Russian society, its critique of feudalism, and its unique characters, each with their own quirks and failings.
Gogol intended the novel to be the first part of a three-volume work, but he destroyed the manuscript of the second part before his death.
#12398
• Mentioned in 4 episodes
Johnny Tremaine
Esther Forbes
#6429
• Mentioned in 8 episodes
Resurrection Man
Charlotte MacLeod
#1076
• Mentioned in 35 episodes
Lincoln in the Bardo
Yannick Garcia Porres
George Saunders
Javier Calvo Perales
The novel is set in 1862 during the American Civil War and revolves around the death of Willie Lincoln, the 11-year-old son of President Abraham Lincoln.
After Willie's death from typhoid fever, his spirit finds itself in a limbo known as the bardo, a concept borrowed from Tibetan Buddhism.
Here, he encounters a diverse group of ghosts who are also trapped between the world of the living and the afterlife.
The story delves into themes of grief, both personal and national, as Lincoln grapples with the loss of his son amidst the broader context of the Civil War. The novel is characterized by its unique narrative style, which includes a multitude of voices and historical quotes, and its exploration of the human experience of suffering and love.
#88529
The Sleep Book
Dr Seuss
Dr.
Seuss's Sleep Book is a classic children's tale that follows the journey of various creatures as they prepare for sleep.
The story begins with a small bug named Van Vleck, whose yawn sets off a chain reaction, putting countless creatures to sleep.
The book is filled with Dr. Seuss's signature rhymes and imaginative illustrations, making it a delightful bedtime read for children.
#20747
• Mentioned in 3 episodes
The Sneetches
Dr Seuss
Dr.
Seuss's "The Sneetches" is a satirical tale that uses the whimsical world of Sneetches to explore themes of discrimination and prejudice.
The story follows two groups of Sneetches—those with stars and those without—and their struggles for acceptance and belonging.
Through the actions of Sylvester McMonkey McBean, a con artist who profits from the Sneetches' insecurities, the book highlights the absurdity and economic consequences of prejudice.
The Sneetches' eventual realization of their shared humanity underscores the importance of equality and understanding.
It's a powerful story that teaches valuable lessons about social justice and the dangers of discrimination.
#5347
• Mentioned in 9 episodes
A Good Man is Hard to Find
Flannery O'Connor
Published in 1955, 'A Good Man Is Hard to Find' is a short story by Flannery O'Connor that follows a Georgia family on a road trip to Florida.
The grandmother manipulates the family into taking a detour to visit an old plantation, leading them into a fateful encounter with The Misfit, a violent escaped convict.
The story critiques superficial religious attitudes and explores the conflict between appearance and reality, particularly through the characters of the grandmother and The Misfit.
It is a tale of moral and philosophical introspection, set against the backdrop of the Southern Gothic tradition, characterized by dark humor, violence, and a sense of foreboding.
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Gooseberries
Anton Chekhov
"Gooseberries" explores themes of happiness, contentment, and the human condition through the story of two brothers with contrasting life views.
One brother, Nikolai, dreams of owning a country estate with gooseberry bushes, driven by a desire for a peaceful, idyllic life.
He endures hardship and makes sacrifices to achieve this dream, ultimately obtaining his estate.
However, when his brother Ivan visits, he finds Nikolai's happiness shallow and self-centered, realizing that it comes at the expense of others' suffering.
The story critiques the narrow-minded pursuit of personal happiness and questions the true meaning of a fulfilling life.
Bestselling author and Booker Prize winner George Saunders talks about obsessively revising his work, seeing things from a dead character's perspective, and why works of fiction can help people make sense of difficult realities. And in this EXCLUSIVE extended interview, hear Stephen and George talk more about writer's block and their favorite Flannery O'Connor short stories, only on The Late Show Pod Show! His latest book, "Vigil," is available now. Stick around for an even more in-depth interview with The Late Show Book Club, when our bookworm producer Ali chats with George Saunders about the music that inspires him to write, the Russian short story he thinks will change your life, and his favorite advice for aspiring writers.
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