A conversation with Prof. Tom Ruys of Ghent University, in which we re-examine the positions he took in his famous book on armed attack and self-defense, and then discuss the debate he has recently sparked around the question of whether states may use force in self-defense to recover occupied territory, looking specifically at whether Azerbaijan could justify its recent seizure of Nagorno-Karabakh as a valid exercise of self-defense. Finally, we also talk about the relationship between economic sanctions and the collective security regime. For more info on the episode and for links to the related material, visit http://jibjabpodcast.com