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Episode 243 | Sebastian Junger on Running, Writing, and Not Negotiating With Yourself

Mar 28, 2025

Guest

Sebastian Junger

Sebastian Junger, a New York Times bestselling author known for titles like "The Perfect Storm" and a passionate distance runner, shares his unique insights on the intersection of running and writing. He discusses how running shapes identity and parallels experiences in combat, emphasizing how fear and exhaustion dissolve ego. Junger reflects on his transformative journey from athlete to author, highlighting the emotional ties to both sports and stories. The conversation also touches on the communal aspect of running and the cultural significance within various communities.

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ANECDOTE

Untrained Marathon

A week before the Boston Marathon, Junger decided to run it despite lack of training.
He finished in 3:15, despite a bloody nose and exhaustion.

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ADVICE

No Pain Negotiation

Don't negotiate with pain, especially in endurance sports.
Maintain an unnegotiating stance, both physically and mentally.

insights

INSIGHT

Pain and Vulnerability

Ignoring non-dangerous pain can lead to a bigger life, but be mindful.
New or persistent pain in vital organs should be checked immediately.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Running Connections: A Journey Through Sport and Story

02:41 • 5min

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The Intersection of Running and Identity

07:37 • 4min

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Enthusiastic Endorsement of New Running Shoes

11:15 • 2min

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Exploring the Intersection of Running and Writing

12:57 • 2min

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The Journey to Runner's High

15:07 • 25min

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Running Through Cultures

40:12 • 10min

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From Athlete to Author: A Journey of Identity

50:28 • 21min

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Running, Writing, and the Quest for Flow

01:11:23 • 24min

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Endurance Beyond Racing: Life, Health, and Survival

The Complete Guide to Running a Marathon

Bill Rogers

Bill Rogers' "Marathoning" is a comprehensive guide for runners of all levels, offering practical advice and insights into the sport. The book covers various aspects of marathon training, including pacing strategies, nutrition, and injury prevention. Rogers shares his personal experiences and expertise, providing readers with a blend of technical knowledge and motivational encouragement. He emphasizes the importance of discipline, perseverance, and mental toughness in achieving marathon success. The book is a valuable resource for anyone looking to improve their marathon performance or simply deepen their understanding of the sport.

#8899

• Mentioned in 6 episodes

A death in Belmont

Sebastian Junger

#1212

• Mentioned in 32 episodes

War

Bob Woodward

In this book, Bob Woodward provides an intimate and sweeping account of one of the most tumultuous periods in presidential politics and American history. The narrative centers on President Joe Biden’s approach to managing the war in Ukraine and the Middle East conflict between Israel and Hamas, as well as Donald Trump’s efforts to regain political power. Woodward reveals the complexity and consequences of wartime back-channel diplomacy and decision-making, highlighting efforts to deter the use of nuclear weapons and prevent a rapid slide into World War III.

#1941

• Mentioned in 23 episodes

Freedom

Barack Obama

#5370

• Mentioned in 9 episodes

Fire

Sebastian Junger

#1439

• Mentioned in 29 episodes

The perfect storm

Sebastian Junger

The book recounts the story of the Andrea Gail, a fishing boat from Gloucester, Massachusetts, that was lost at sea during the severe 1991 Perfect Storm. Junger details the lives of the crew members, their families, and the rescue efforts during the storm. The narrative combines technical information about fishing and storms with a compassionate and vivid portrayal of the men's experiences. It also includes accounts of other vessels caught in the storm and the rescue operations by the U.S. Coast Guard.

#481

• Mentioned in 63 episodes

Tribe

On Homecoming and Belonging

Sebastian Junger

In 'Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging', Sebastian Junger delves into the human desire for community and belonging. Drawing from history, psychology, and anthropology, Junger examines why many individuals, including combat veterans, often feel a stronger sense of belonging in tribal or wartime environments than in modern society. He argues that the lack of community in affluent societies can lead to feelings of isolation and depression, while disasters and wars can paradoxically bring people together and foster a sense of unity. The book challenges the notion that modern society is superior to tribal societies, highlighting the benefits of egalitarianism and community found in the latter. Junger also discusses how the absence of these communal bonds can affect veterans returning from war and suggests that societal changes could help reintegrate them and improve overall societal well-being.

#2425

• Mentioned in 19 episodes

In My Time of Dying

Sebastian Junger

Sebastian Junger's "In My Time of Dying" delves into his near-death experience, exploring themes of mortality, consciousness, and the possibility of an afterlife. The book recounts Junger's personal journey of facing his own mortality after a near-fatal aneurysm. He interweaves his personal narrative with extensive research on near-death experiences, examining various scientific and philosophical perspectives. Junger challenges conventional understandings of death and consciousness, prompting readers to contemplate the nature of existence beyond the physical realm. The book concludes with a thoughtful reflection on the profound impact of his experience and the enduring questions it raises.

Sebastian Junger is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of The Perfect Storm, Fire, A Death in Belmont, War, Tribe, Freedom, and In My Time of Dying, as well as an award-winning journalist, documentary filmmaker, and, perhaps most impressively, highly accomplished distance runner. A collegiate athlete at Wesleyan University in the early 1980s, Junger has run 3:55 for 1500 meters and 2:21 for the marathon.

In this conversation, we talk about his background in running as well as how it's shaped his identity and framed his perspective on writing and life. We also discuss how his relationship to running has evolved over the years, the parallels between competitive running and being in combat — "There's nothing like fear and exhaustion to wipe out your ego," he explains — how he got his start as a journalist and eventually author, the race he's spent his entire life training for, and a lot more.

This episode is brought to you by:

— Tracksmith, New Balance, Precision Fuel & Hydration, and Final Surge. All of these brands have missions I believe in and products that I trust and use myself on a regular basis. One of the best ways to support the morning shakeout is by patronizing the partners that help keep them going week in and week out. Check out this page some of the discount codes and special offers available exclusively to readers and listeners of the morning shakeout.

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Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford.

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