The Aliveness Project: Conversations on Connection Surviving Narcissism: Dr. Nadine Macaluso on Trauma Bonds and Healing
In this inaugural episode of The Aliveness Project: Conversations on Connection, we’re joined by Dr. Nadine Macaluso—therapist, author, and trauma bond expert—and Dr. Laurence Heller, the creator of the NeuroAffective Relational Model® (NARM®). Together, they sit down with NARM Master Therapist and podcast host Iris McAlpin Garrett for a candid and layered conversation about narcissism, trauma bonds, and the role of early relational trauma in shaping both sides of these painful dynamics.
Drawing from personal and professional experience, Nadine shares powerful reflections on how trauma bonds form and why they can be so difficult to break. Larry offers insights from a NARM perspective, exploring how the Trust Survival Style often underlies these dynamics and how early disconnection impacts a person’s ability to trust themselves and others. Together, the conversation brings a deeper level of understanding to the complexities of narcissistic relationships and developmental trauma.
Whether you're a clinician, a helping professional, or someone navigating the aftermath of a trauma bond, this episode invites reflection, curiosity, and hope for meaningful reconnection—with yourself and with others.
About Nadine:
Dr. Nadine Macaluso (Dr. Nae) is a therapist, writer, and industry expert in narcissistic abuse, trauma bonds, and complex PTSD. At 22, she married Jordan Belfort—the infamous “Wolf of Wall Street”—believing love could save him. After years in a trauma bond, she left at 30, beginning a journey of deep self-reflection and healing. This led her to pursue a PhD in counseling and somatic psychology, launching a career dedicated to helping others break free from abusive relationships. Through her private practice, Dr. Nae has supported countless women navigating toxic dynamics, drawing from both professional expertise and personal experience. She is the author of Run Like Hell: A Therapist’s Guide to Recognizing, Escaping, and Healing from Trauma Bonds. A mother of five (plus two dogs), a cancer survivor, and a devoted advocate for survivors, Dr. Nae continues to educate and empower those impacted by relational trauma.
You can find Dr. Nae on her website at https://drnae.com/ or on social media…
Instagram: @therealdrnadine
TikTok: @drnaelmft
Facebook: @drnaelmft
Youtube: @TheRealDrNadine
About Larry:
Dr. Laurence Heller is the creator of the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM), founder of the NARM Training Institute, international trainer, and co-author of Healing Developmental Trauma: How Early Trauma Affects Self-Regulation, Self-Image and the Capacity for Relationship, now published in fifteen different languages. Dr. Heller has a PhD in clinical psychology and has conducted NARM trainings and case consultations for thousands of therapists throughout the United States and Europe. His new book on the NARM perspective on shame is set to be published in March 2026.
You can find Larry and the NARM Training Institute at https://narmtraining.com/, at https://drlaurenceheller.com/, or on social media...
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/narm-training-institute
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NARMTraining
Special thanks to the NARM Training Institute team—Lindsey Smith, Olga Piontkowski, Emily Scott, and Tue Kjær—for their invaluable production support.