The Trough Man - A Legendary Guy in Sydney

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On the podcast this week we are joined by fearmongers who go way back to Hungry Beast: Kirk Docker (You Can't Ask That), Kirsten Drysdale (Reputation Rehab), Lewis Hobba (Triple J) and Dan Ilic (Out Of Home Media Buyer).

We're also joined by Michael Mazengarb from RenewEconomy.com.au who gives us break down on the spurious modelling behind the Australian Government's Net Zero by 2050 target that they took to COP26.

On the agenda this week:

• Australian Podcast Awards

• Alan Jones' Social Network

• Dave Sharma's Typos

• Golden Shower Rock and Roll

• Eddie Obeid's family business

• Australia's Greatest High Jumper

• Does Australia's Net Zero by 2050 modelling add up? (It doesn't)

Cheers

Dan Ilic
Hammer Purveyor

PATREON 💸:

If you enjoy our podcast, emails and important climate change conversations, chip in here:  www.patreon.com/arationalfear

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear
📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/
👕 BUY OUR MERCH HERE

Bertha Announcement  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the birther foundation. Good evening, Lewis.

Dan Ilic  0:05  
Hello. How are you?

Lewis Hobba  0:06  
Hello, Daniel. I'm really good. How are you?

Dan Ilic  0:08  
I'm really good. I'm really good. It's been a couple of weeks since we've done a podcast. I've almost forgotten how to do a podcast. I did. Yeah, it's

Lewis Hobba  0:16  
any consolation. No one listening to the podcast would have thought you knew what you were doing before?

Dan Ilic  0:21  
Well, we've had a huge bump in the ratings were about 1000 up from last month, which is huge. So there are people listening. So thank you for listening everyone. And also, I Something happened between over the last two weeks we didn't even get to talk about and that is, we have been nominated for an Australian podcast Award for Best Comedy podcasts. 2021 which is great. We're that guy for two in a row. Yeah, we go over to on the road and we I'm confused because sizzle town was there like our arch nemesis because they always won and they're not on this list. I don't know. Whatever happened to Tony mountain sizzle down

Lewis Hobba  0:54  
Tony, Tony Martin, just that he just isn't finding anymore. After 60 years of being one of the kindest, funniest, best gentle bit of Australian comedy, he's lost it and it's canceled coach's fault. You can't do comedy anymore.

Dan Ilic  1:07  
Many people will say that you have replaced Tony Martin as the tall skinny guy with glasses. Yeah, they can only be one tall, skinny man with glasses in comedy is

Lewis Hobba  1:16  
genuinely every time Tony Manon and I are in the room together. Someone will come up to us and say, Can we get a photo with the two of you? And Tony Martin is so bored of it and it brings me so much joy didn't

Dan Ilic  1:27  
You didn't when you didn't you cast as a young Tony Martin for Tony mountain film.

Lewis Hobba  1:33  
It's it's this is a bit of a long story. I'll try to cut it as quickly as possible. When I was like 23 and I was at film school. And I'd never done any performing. I just done like a little bit of stand up. I was really like supergreen happened to be at Eddie perfect engagement party. And lucky Hume the actor bailed me up at this party and started chatting. And he was like, mate, Tony Martin's a mate of mine. And you look exactly like him. You sound exactly like Tony Martin. Um, I came out and sort of my comedy heroes that is so kind of you lucky him. And he's like, you'll never believe it. Me and Tony are working on a life story of Tony Martin. Right now we're looking for a young Tony Martin, and it's got to be you. And I you could you believe how excited I was. It was genuinely the happiest night of my life. And he took my number. A week later, he sent me Tony Martin's book in the post and he's like, this is the book, learn it. We're gonna be hearing this is like, you got to learn this so that when you retire in the same room, you're ready to go right. Then I heard nothing more about. And then six months later, I happened to be a cookie bar in Melbourne, and bumped into Tony Martin. And I'm like, and I went up to him like, hey, sorry, my name is Louis. We haven't met but I'm a big fan. And we're talking for about five minutes. And then he goes Wait, you're Louis haba right. Yeah, I am. He goes like he told me about you. And I was like, oh yeah. He told me about the project. How's it going? He's like, Oh, like he's full of shit. That's not going anywhere. My young

Dan Ilic  3:03  
Shatta Wale things that are going some places I will do want to say a big big hello to the Big Creek community podcast Candyman podcast The Chaser report our friends at the chase Oh, Oscar nominated, good personal friends Hamish and Andy were nominated. And the housewarming podcast, who of course is hosted by one of your old housemates Marty smiley,

Lewis Hobba  3:25  
and one of the housemates a longtime housemate of one of our guests on the podcast today as well. But yeah, he does a podcast all that housemates. And as far as I can tell, he's spoken to every one of the people who used to live with except me. So I'm unsure of what his what his problem is what he's afraid of.

Dan Ilic  3:42  
I'm just getting him on the phone right now. Let's have a quick chat with him about that. I want to confront this issue before we start our podcast.

Lewis Hobba  3:48  
Me to actually want to get the answer to this.

Unknown Speaker  3:54  
You won't answer did you do?

Lewis Hobba  3:55  
Did you tell him he's calling? He'll be doing something? You know, I

Dan Ilic  3:58  
told him I told him we're gonna call him just after right?

Lewis Hobba  4:00  
That's even more perfect. Of course, he's not answering.

Dan Ilic  4:05  
Oh, he's doing this. You know why? You know why? He's not answering. He's not answering. He

Lewis Hobba  4:09  
knows. I'm gonna ask him. I'm not on the podcast a day. You called Mighty slowly. I

Marty Smiley  4:13  
can't get to the phone right now. But if you'd leave your name and your number, or just shoot me a text, I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Dan Ilic  4:21  
Oh, here we go here and he's he's only on the other line. Marty Smiley? Yeah. Were you trying to? Were you trying to do your best to destroy the irrational fear podcasts? For not answering your phone?

Unknown Speaker  4:35  
Time is limited.

Dan Ilic  4:39  
Just humanity. Now we got Louis Harbor on the line. And also we got your former another former flatmate Kirk Docker. And Lewis has one serious question about your podcast even though he's nominated for Best Comedy podcast. He's got one burning question. He wants to ask you about it or not

Unknown Speaker  4:54  
get on it.

Lewis Hobba  4:56  
I mean, obviously congratulations on the nomination and best of luck. I was wondering why you know episode one of the podcast, Kirk Tucker, who's on our podcast who joins us now was on it. So many other of your other housemates on it. So many other Triple J comedians on it. Basically everyone you know, that I know has been on it except me. I'm just wondering why

Mick Neven  5:24  
it's a difficult vetting process.

Lewis Hobba  5:28  
In fact, not only that you texted me to ask for a bunch of people's numbers from triple Jason like Oh, my can you get you got Linda Mariana is number I'm like yeah. Number one for I'd love to hear on the podcast. Oh, would you someone who you've never lived with and don't know

Unknown Speaker  5:50  
let's be honest. There's a reason for it. And you have a secret about exactly

Unknown Speaker  5:57  
I knew it.

Dan Ilic  6:00  
That wants to come out. Kirk maybe you can bring some insight into why hasn't Louis been invited on the house morning podcast and as guest number one yourself?

Kirk Docker  6:11  
He scared because Louis will dish up dirt that Marty will not want known to be public. He knew that if I came on the podcast I would say sort of funny things nice things backing him up but he was worried about Lewis Lewis has got that acid tongue and what might be revealed what dodgy dirty you know stuff might be revealed from the mighty smiley you know vault All right, well, you know, I wanted out there

Dan Ilic  6:39  
Marty if you do win Best Comedy podcast, will you then have Lewis haba on your podcast

Unknown Speaker  6:45  
as a guest Look, let me do that on this site now. What do you think? Look? I think there's just a lot of diversity that we need to really look at there's a lot of boxes you don't really keep Louis really hard to say but if you're if something comes up you know let you know. Yeah,

Dan Ilic  7:07  
tall white man in his late 30s Definitely not in the demographic Alright, let's get rid of the house. Well, good luck with the Podcast Awards Marty.

Unknown Speaker  7:19  
Bye.

Lewis Hobba  7:20  
Thank you good luck to you do not

Dan Ilic  7:25  
think we got notice. Oh my god. Oh, well.

Kirk Docker  7:30  
That's how to keep still nice Dan.

Dan Ilic  7:32  
Here we go. I'm recording my end of irrational fear and gotta go Land of the Eora nation sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's stop the shot

Unknown Speaker  7:39  
of Russian will field contains naughty words like bricks. Canberra. Fan COMM And section 40 of our rational view recommended listening might emerge your audience.

Dan Ilic  7:52  
Tonight Rupert Murdoch urges Donald Trump to move on from his 2020 defeat, Donald Trump responded by signing an executive order to cancel his Neo post subscription and spreading her back the Queen has had to cut back on driving and horse riding. Doctors have reminded her that she isn't a sprightly 94 year old anymore. And with 360 days until cop 27 We'll have the CEO of Santos here with all the tips on how you can buy off politicians before the silly season. It's the 19th of November and a big Happy International Men's Day to men. But not all men. This is irrational fear.

Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host, former conservator of the Britney Spears estate Dan illage. And this is the podcast that looks at the scariest news in the feed and gives it a wedgie joining us on the podcast and had to tell us how they're going to celebrate International Men's Day. This week's featured Mungus before she was a TV presenter and investigative journalist she represented Australia the highest levels of competitive field hockey, pull up in your shooting pads. It's Kirsten Drysdale.

Kirsten Drysdale  9:06  
Hey, it's an off to the trees. I'll take it.

Dan Ilic  9:09  
Okay, Kirsten, how I how are you going to be celebrating International Men's Day? Tomorrow

Kirsten Drysdale  9:15  
I'm going to leave my kids at home with my husband and go out with the girls for drinks.

Dan Ilic  9:20  
And our next fear monger spends his days talking with the most misunderstood people in society fresh from a week of interviewing porn stars. Get fluffed for the creator of you can ask that Kotoka

Kirk Docker  9:30  
thank you and welcome and fluffers unfortunately aren't real. I thought they were they flat they fluff themselves. Yeah. It's one of the things I learned yesterday was that one of the big preparations that some female porn stars do is stretching their holes. That's a very, very important part to do before they get into the set. So it's there's no fluffers it's them themselves in the bathroom, doing as they call it, ladies.

Kirsten Drysdale  9:58  
That sounds like something they shouldn't Teach Like women who are going to give birth how to do like, that would be useful.

Kirk Docker  10:04  
Yeah, I'm also doing an episode on postnatal depression at the moment. So it's sort of you know, you can, you know, you can compare notes across different episodes sometimes.

Kirsten Drysdale  10:13  
Sorry, where did the fluffer myth myth start in? Why do we think this fluffers

Kirk Docker  10:17  
I think Boogie Nights something like that. It's not like Boogie Nights,

Dan Ilic  10:21  
it's got to be got to be so many. It's got to be like decades before that, like that was a mean before Boogie Nights surely?

Kirk Docker  10:28  
Well, I think what they do now is the men anyway, they inject their, you know, old fellow with something and that's what keeps them going the whole time. So it you know, an injection has replaced the fluff, in a sense that they can inject it with this special stuff, and it just stays hard for as long as necessary. Wow,

Lewis Hobba  10:44  
this stuff is so vague and terrifying. Does that mean?

Kirk Docker  10:51  
Well, they put it in and it stays hard till it till till all day. And the problem they have now is that they need to ejaculate on command. So when you can check it on command, that's what puts the shoot over over time. And that's what people get really, really annoyed about. So the real skill in a male porn star is being able to ejaculate like that when you do that you get you get hired.

Dan Ilic  11:13  
That's amazing. Wow. So is it like Sally no gaps or something? Is that where they inject? Or is it

Kirk Docker  11:19  
something it's something along those lines? It's something that keeps them you know, it's something that keeps them rock hard rock hard,

Kirsten Drysdale  11:27  
and sorry, Coke why? Why do you know all this stuff at the moment? What's the project?

Kirk Docker  11:31  
Well, one of the episodes of the new you can ask that is porn performance. When I say stars because we are delving into you know, only fans and the full breadth of how porn looks in 2021 but there are some stars in there and there are everything in between.

Dan Ilic  11:46  
Coming up a little later on, we take a look at the outcomes of cop 26 And just how far off net zero emissions the government's own modeling said it will be with renewal economies Michael amazing garb. But first here is a message from this week's sponsor.

Alan Jones  12:01  
warning everybody over the last few months I've been undergoing emergency medical treatment on my leg. It turns out I had been leaning too far to the left. God thank God they fix that up. Now while I've been away those vermin at Sky News have canceled me. Yes, I'm a victim of canceled culture. So that's why I'm studying my own social network. Cancel your Foxtel subscriptions and sign up for Q and Latin the social network by me Alan Jones from sign up you can enjoy all the benefits of being a q ln member, Robert Menzies is still Prime Minister, you call a man a racist, the Wallabies when every now and then and for the first time in four years, the Wallabies have one mark Latham cooks up a delicious Southeast Asian inspired meal. These are the best scones. And each week a new album is released by Anthony Kelly as a I want to voice sounds like a bit like a computer, but we're working that out. And the best thing is you'll be surrounded by like minded retirees over the age of 65. So you'll never have to worry about grandchildren correcting you with fake news about climate change from NASA. God, global warming, what next? There's a plague or something. Give me a break. Anything you could do on Facebook, you can do on cue LAN plus more. You can poke people. Yes, you can berate people, you can put people in a chat bag and throw them out to see you could even inside a race right at the click of a button. And the best thing is a camera can't touch you. So join que LAN the social network where free speech is for easy payments of 4999 a month and you can be friends with me Alan Jones for an extra 699 a month. That's real cash in the comments. So join kulen today.

Dan Ilic  13:44  
I was gonna call up Jonestown but it was taken on Alan Jones. It's good to see Alan Jones breaking out into the digital space. It's very good. This week's first video I wanted to talk about my my local member. I don't know if you saw this this this happened earlier this year on speeding International Men's Day. On International Women's Day my local member went to edgecliff Station and handed out flowers to female commuters saying Happy International Women's Day. Let's make it a day when we strive to improve the respect dignity and equality for every woman everywhere. Did you do you guys remember this at all through this moment?

Lewis Hobba  14:24  
I do remember that? Yeah. It was I mean such a such a touching gesture.

Kirsten Drysdale  14:30  
I mean, like I was gonna say beautiful thought beautiful thought. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  14:34  
No just so good. Just so wild that in a year when no parliament is completely rocked by rape allegations sexual assault allegations of misconduct by so many parliamentarians. That's what he came up with for International Women's Day to handout.

Kirk Docker  14:51  
I box popped in that area and I swear all biddies love that stuff in there. I think he's on the money. You're handing out flowers. It's a perfect response in that part of city I think I'm over. I love it.

Lewis Hobba  15:02  
He must have known the photo on Twitter was gonna be an absolute nightmare.

Kirsten Drysdale  15:08  
You know, it's like thing of like, you know, flowers make amends for anything. So he's just trying to hand out flowers to all the women in the world to make amends.

Dan Ilic  15:17  
Yeah, like it's it's like a complete Band Aid solution for everything that his government has done over the over the last couple years, on behalf of above have meant was women.

Lewis Hobba  15:29  
Yeah, but yeah, also, there's that thing with flowers where there are some people who are suspicious of receiving them because they assume that it's like, they're like, why are you getting me these? What have you done? I mean, a lot.

Kirsten Drysdale  15:42  
Yeah, that was pre emptive flowers. That was March that was pre emptive flowers, but all the shit that was to come for the rest of the year. Oh, right.

Dan Ilic  15:50  
Yeah, it was like, it was like carbon credits. It was like, it's like bullshit credits. Yeah, yeah. The tone deafness continues. About a month before cop Dave Sharma went on this whole kind of transition to being like a climate warrior. He's trying to talk a lot like Greta tunberg, to kind of involve himself to the climate can concern in Wentworth. And so he's been really going full on with this. In fact, he sent out this email about a month ago, this is what he said on the email. It says, rapid and large emissions are needed from right now. What is missing from that sentence is the word reduction, rapid large scale emissions reduction are needed inundated right now. See, it's this weird thing where he's accidentally telling the truth. And the accidentally telling liberal policy when he should be being on the front foot and talking about emissions reduction. This is crazy. And also, just two days ago, he went pamphleteering around the Paddington handing out pamphlets and meeting new voters. And this is what he was doing here handing out these flyers. Now if you look carefully, can you can you guys notice anything suspicious about this this photo of Dave Sharma holding a baby and holding a flyer? Can you can you see anything? Anything weird about this picture?

Kirsten Drysdale  17:09  
Is a baby looks like it's passing out?

Dan Ilic  17:11  
The baby doesn't look like it's passing out.

Lewis Hobba  17:13  
Is it a chokehold?

Kirk Docker  17:14  
Who does baby kissing anymore? I didn't know baby kissing was still

Dan Ilic  17:20  
all the babies around backside you can't go around just kissing babies.

Kirk Docker  17:24  
Well, actually it's baby Stranglehold only really

Kirsten Drysdale  17:28  
well look if the baby's not breathing out it's not spreading virus right so it's fine.

Lewis Hobba  17:33  
Wow, that's the only person with children it's because it says netzero climate action full sentence like he promises to do climate action.

Dan Ilic  17:47  
That's right it says Net Zero climate action on the on the flyer once again. He's the only truthful politician in in the Liberal Party.

Kirsten Drysdale  17:58  
Did I saw your tweet that Dan and I kind of thought you photoshopped the close up. Are you saying that is actually his flyer?

Dan Ilic  18:07  
This is it. I've got to hit I walked up the street and I found one look at this net zero climate action.

Kirsten Drysdale  18:16  
I thought that was a joke from you.

Lewis Hobba  18:18  
Yeah, so like, that's Boy Who Cried Wolf from dead he's been photoshopping shit for so many years that no one really

Kirsten Drysdale  18:28  
jumped in. But that's his real pamphlet.

Dan Ilic  18:30  
She's real pamphlet. It's not a joke. This is what he was handing out. This is Net Zero climate action which is extensively Liberal Party policy. I wanted to share with you what I'm going to do for tomorrow for International Men's Day. I'm going to dress up in Liberal cosplay in a chambray shirt and chinos and head on down edgecliff station. And because it is International Men's Day, the only tone deaf thing I could think of today would be handy handout hammers to a bunch of people in edgecliff station. That feels

Lewis Hobba  19:00  
really dangerous. I don't think that many people are trained to just have exposed hammers. Maybe I'm paranoid but that that feels dangerous.

Dan Ilic  19:07  
That's what's so exciting about this idea it's quite a malevolent idea who gets a hammer who gets a hit No one gets a hammer

Kirk Docker  19:15  
Are you suggesting they should nail something that's what your hammer something is?

Dan Ilic  19:20  
I didn't even know what you're wanting it and what did they show me by handing out flowers to women? Like it's just the same exactly the same thing I'm just gonna hand out hammers to men take your free hammer Happy International Men's Day.

Kirsten Drysdale  19:31  
I look like really good hands. Man. Like really? Like well waited How much did that yeah,

Dan Ilic  19:38  
they're about they're about 10 bucks 15 bucks each so you know this is what the this is what the Patreon money is funding

Lewis Hobba  19:46  
and you paid for me this is an outrage

Dan Ilic  19:50  
Alright, let's move on to this this week second fear this week second fear if you go see musical act bras against you may get you may get more than you bargained for when lead singer Sophie Your wrist, brought up a fan on stage and then lay him down and basically gave him a Golden Shower during a cover song of Rage Against the Machine. Now some fans were disgusted by this others said it was a real pisser Kirk, should we be disgusted by this or just, you know, have this behavior normalized?

Kirk Docker  20:19  
Well, it's interesting you say people were disgusted because if you read the news.com article about it, everyone was disgusted. It was a stomach churning stance. It was shocked the crowd the man spewed the urinal, but if you actually watch the footage, the man had the time of his he was having a good time there it was being pieced on it was actually amazing moment and it's the reporting of it has been that it's been disgusting, but in actual fact, he was mopping up the urine. He was throwing on the crowd, he was dancing jiggling, she had to actually kick him off the stage. She's like, get off man. I'm done. I've done feasting on you get off. I think it's fantastic look, I have a couple of weeks ago I interviewed trough man the myth for this trough man and I don't know you guys know who trough

Lewis Hobba  21:05  
I honestly can't believe he managed to get trough man. Like I genuinely thought trough man. Like the Penrith Panther, just the thing that people said at night times?

Kirk Docker  21:15  
Well, that's Look, the trough man is a legendary guy in Sydney that people thought was a myth. Was he alive was he did the story was that over the last 40 years, he would lay in urinals at parties at the Mardi Gras after party etc. and at certain time, and it would appear in these little little tiny shorts and people he would lay in the trough and people would be okay. And he had the time of his life so much so that he's become this legend where he shorts and now framed and hung at Stonewall and you can see his urine soaked short so that now dried and hung there. And if I've learned anything from speaking to trough men or any other people who are into watersports or golden showers, as they call it, is that they have the time of their life. And all I'd say is that unless you've tried it, don't knock it. I think that golden showers may have something for it that we don't quite know. And if we had the courage to try it, we might be as into it as old made on stage the other day.

Dan Ilic  22:09  
Do you think this is why you know terrorists in Guantanamo Bay when they were waterboarded decided to just hang out there and not give any secrets? Because they were actually being gold being done but with golden showers instead?

Lewis Hobba  22:23  
Jesus Christ

Dan Ilic  22:24  
too much too much. No.

Kirk Docker  22:27  
Just enough.

Unknown Speaker  22:30  
I think I think for this

Dan Ilic  22:30  
for this for this musical artist. It's so strange because now people are like, I hadn't heard of brass attack before this.

Lewis Hobba  22:37  
I don't know if there are brass against a fan.

Dan Ilic  22:39  
Thank you.

Kirsten Drysdale  22:42  
A longtime fan.

Lewis Hobba  22:44  
I'm more of a fan of pissing on people. But now I've become a fan of brass. But I

Dan Ilic  22:48  
haven't heard I haven't I haven't heard of brass against until this moment. And now I feel like that's their thing. That's what they do that like that's the thing that people are gonna be going to say they're gonna be down to brass against to have to say Sofia piss on people.

Lewis Hobba  23:02  
When have you wanted to hear a description of the genre of music they make? Honestly, is the best thing that could possibly happen to you. Which is they do brass band covers. Heavy Metal, which genuinely sounds like the worst. Like, honestly, 1000 people compare Sunday before I would go. Nightmare.

Kirk Docker  23:25  
And so like having crazy acts that rock artists do is every day something new you know what I mean? This is as old as time that the Rockstar will do something wacky to get attention. So it's it's yeah, it's exciting. It's exciting that it's back on the agenda. Rockstar is doing something wacky on stage. And

Kirsten Drysdale  23:41  
I agree. I agree, Kirk. I thought it was awesome. I didn't think it was. I mean, it kind of is disgusting. But that's why it was so fucking awesome. And I don't think it should be normalized.

Lewis Hobba  23:54  
Like Carol's. Awesome, let me bring this out.

Dan Ilic  23:59  
And no,

Kirsten Drysdale  24:00  
I don't think they're gonna do it on today's show. But um, no. And I also like, I reckon that that video, like that moment that is going to be like the defining cultural moment of the end of the COVID era. I say, because it's like we've spent two years like being paranoid about other people and their bodies and their disgusting fucking fluids that's coming out of them. And we're kind of through it all. And now it's just yeah, I'm gonna piss on your face like that. She's just embracing that we can be close again.

Lewis Hobba  24:30  
Yeah, 2021 it's more okay to piss on someone's face than it is to sneeze without covering it with your elbow.

Unknown Speaker  24:40  
Scott Morrison elaborately deceive the French the idea that a nuclear reactor with enough weapons grade uranium to make many many bonds can be treated like a power pack for money is incredible. I mean, it is just bullshit. A

Alan Jones  24:57  
rational fear

Dan Ilic  24:58  
this week's third fear well Eddie obeyed and his son Moses chillaxing. Behind bars, the tentacles of the family wealth seem to be uncovered every single day and there are two more brothers implicated with a dodgy property deal in Hawks Nest. fear mongers, if you were a criminal mastermind, would you just have offspring for the sole purpose of laundering money? Kirsten, not worth it? If you've got like two kids, are you going to be like getting them into the family business,

Lewis Hobba  25:27  
so to speak crime family?

Kirsten Drysdale  25:29  
I'm going to send them out to work as soon as they can. Yeah, but not not for me. I don't want anything more to do with them. Like know, they can just you know, start paying board and rent. But the thing this story was like, for me, it was like, you know, those like really infuriating property stories, where they it's you know how I bought my first home at 24. And like, seven parents seven paragraphs deep, you discover that these like little bleached teeth fuckers inherited a million dollars from their parents, and that's how they bought their house. So this story is like that. Except the children. They inherited $30 million from their dad who stole it from the New South Wales Government. And they're not like buying a three bedroom merrickville They're like buying up secretly by the way Aboriginal owned land on the sleepy coastal towns and they're putting up high rise developments there. Were nobody wants them. That's that's the story. Yes. Amazing.

Dan Ilic  26:27  
Yeah. How I buy how I bought a high rise development with one simple trick. My dad stole the money. My dad stole some money from the government.

Lewis Hobba  26:37  
But do you think my dad as someone who has kids now it's you would just be at some point you go it you raising you has been such a nightmare? But the least you can do for me? Is risk going to prison?

Kirsten Drysdale  26:51  
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like can continue my corrupt dealings and make this this money grow even more? Yes. Yeah. No, no, you get to hold that over them forever.

Dan Ilic  27:01  
No, idiot Bates any gone to prison for 10 months. So you know, that land was bought that land was bought for 600,000 A couple of years ago, after he gets out of prison. The market would be huge. Like those lands already gone up, like Daisley triple.

Kirsten Drysdale  27:16  
I'm just like, how do you have you like get busted? Like you stole the 30 million is that's there's no question about that. That is like 100% proven we know that he's stolen 30 million, but they don't have to give it back. You know, like, if you steal a car and they find you with the car, you the car goes back to the owner, like how did they just get to keep the 30 million

Lewis Hobba  27:35  
Danna you're you're you're the only born and bred New South house person in the in on the podcast

Dan Ilic  27:42  
also. loso also Lebanese person. So yeah, yeah. Sure.

Lewis Hobba  27:48  
That that's gonna make my next question seem more loaded than I wanted to. Which is when was the last time you South Wales had a leader who wasn't correct?

Dan Ilic  27:57  
Do you know what I actually think it was a friend of the show Bob Carr. I think that was the last time we had a leader that wasn't really, that really didn't kind of, you know, put his foot in it.

Kirsten Drysdale  28:07  
He left with a clean slate in me. Yeah,

Dan Ilic  28:09  
I mean, we haven't rather we haven't hasn't been discovered what he's done yet. Like, we need to call we need to call Kate McClymont and ask her to get her on the podcast again and say

Lewis Hobba  28:21  
what is Bob done? Because like in Victoria, there are people right now with nooses and guns on the street. Because Dan Andrew has, like made pretty similar decisions to most of the premiers around the country. Yeah. Whereas in New South Wales, you can literally steal $30 million and no one cares. No, it's so staggering that it does no one gives a fuck of it like

Dan Ilic  28:41  
no you can miss allies and you can mess up lockdown and you can resign for being alleged allegedly corrupt, and then people will leave flowers at your office like this.

Lewis Hobba  28:56  
Yeah, it's incredible and you know, people you can just be like on leaving over a bottle of grain and everyone will go yep, that seems reasonable checks out. No more questions here. Do you like obviously it's not that

Dan Ilic  29:07  
I think it's because people in Sydney so property obsessed. When they say stuff like this, they go well, whatever you have to do to get ahead, you know? Good on. Good on Darryl. He really tried it on

Kirk Docker  29:18  
Do you think any in the family into watersports property there at

Unknown Speaker  29:31  
the agreements that's come out of Glasgow have an eye to green light for more coal production. That's good news for the world because it might be the most important thing for the world to do. The next few decades is to bring more and more people out of poverty, and coal and cheap energy helps do that

Dan Ilic  29:46  
a rational here in a moment, we're going to be talking with Michael Mason garb about Australia's place in the world stage and how we are absolutely the worst country in the world when it comes to climate negotiations. But I've actually got someone special on the line right Now we've actually got the world's greatest high jumper who happens to be an Australian. So mcnevin Thanks for joining us and Australian high jumper who claims to be the greatest high jumper in the world. Welcome.

Mick Neven  30:10  
Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, that is correct. I am.

Dan Ilic  30:14  
I am. Do it's an amazing claim to be the world's greatest high jumper what's the basis for the claim?

Mick Neven  30:21  
Well, I have never missed the jump. No one's No, that's right. I have never noticed the bar onto the mat.

Dan Ilic  30:30  
So what's your highest jump 50 centimeters 50 centimeters that's not very

Lewis Hobba  30:35  
high.

Mick Neven  30:36  
Well, that is the targets that I've set for myself and I meet and beat that targets every time I jump.

Dan Ilic  30:42  
Now the mentor jump record is 2.45 meters and the women's record is 2.09 meters you're nowhere near that I hear but I don't worry about what other high jumper doing you've never once competed at the Olympic Games.

Mick Neven  30:55  
Why would I see a leaf pick a hot Fs although so called high jumpers, making bold claims about query 2.4 meters and what happens? They all not the bar onto the mat, and they look pretty stupid doing it. I made them beat my target every time I can do high jumper Yeah,

Dan Ilic  31:12  
it's only 50 centimeters. That's right.

Mick Neven  31:15  
I don't need to jump higher. I'm less than 2% of the world. I've jumped if I raise the bar to even 1.5 minutes sure I could jump it so that's a clear goal. To achieve that I need to coach I'd have to start training I need objective. Why bother? I can beat that 50 centimeters and it doesn't take me

Unknown Speaker  31:31  
or anyone

Dan Ilic  31:31  
else. Yeah 50

Mick Neven  31:33  
centimeters you know a primary school kid could jump that jump Oh, I am the world's greatest I've never you know the world's great are the world's greatest high jumper never missed the jump Don't forget that. Never missed the jump. Nick thanks for joining us on irrational fear. See you on the mat buddy. Cop 26

Dan Ilic  31:52  
is over and while Australia's once again the bad guy at the international talks we didn't quite manage to derail the entire thing know that prestigious title went to India the last minute when they decided to change the phrasing of the words phase out to phase down for cold two which most of the other countries went What the fuck is phasing down? Joining us to discuss cop 26 in Australia is modeling to net zero is from renewable economy. Michael amazing garden. Welcome Michael. Hi everyone. And Michael is also a Patreon member as well which is really cool. So it's really cool to have you on Michael.

Lewis Hobba  32:26  
I love the rational fear getting in some pay to play here.

Dan Ilic  32:30  
For full disclosure, Michael pays us to do the podcast about three $3 a month.

Kirk Docker  32:38  
Did you see the hammers Stan just for Dan just bought some really nice hammer. Well done.

Dan Ilic  32:45  
As a Patreon member, how do you feel about me buying hammers to pull us down tomorrow?

Michael Mazengarb  32:50  
I'll be lining up at

Kirsten Drysdale  32:55  
me over the head. Dan.

Lewis Hobba  32:57  
Give me back my money.

Dan Ilic  32:59  
Michael, I just wanted to quickly before we get going quickly just to explain the netzero modeling that got released a couple of weeks after cop had all kind of been done and dusted. It was really remarkable. First of all, Scott Morrison came out before cop to say oh yes, you know, we're going to meet our net zero, we're going to get net zero by 20 2050 and then refused to release the modeling until last week. What did that modeling show? And how far away? Are we actually from meeting net zero?

Michael Mazengarb  33:24  
That's a good question. Firstly, it was really funny because they went out and announced that Australia was committing to zero emissions by net 50. And they promised this modeling. And then we found out in Senate estimates they hadn't actually finished right. The reason why it was released so late is because they were still behind the scenes putting together the document. And then when it did come out, what we see is that rather than meeting net zero emissions, the plan that the government has put out has is on track to reduce emissions by 85%. And there's a nice 15% gap in the plan that the government just is saying that hopefully we'll have some technologies that might just appear and help us bridge that gap. But they haven't actually baked in a plan to net zero.

Dan Ilic  34:10  
There's actually this 15% gap where How can I go about calling it a net zero by 2050? Target. So this

Michael Mazengarb  34:17  
is like you can go look at the modeling. And you can say there's a nice chart that the government has put together and they say, Look, we're expecting to reduce Australia's emissions by about a further 60% that they're going to go and by, you know, up to sort of 20% worth of offsets from overseas, and then just this gap, and they are they're saying that hopefully will overachieve and hopefully you know, who knows some crazy fantastic technology will come along and bridge that gap but they don't know what it is and they don't have any idea about when or if that technology will come along.

Lewis Hobba  34:53  
So the plan over the next 30 years is do a little bit of work, plant a few trees and pray

Michael Mazengarb  34:59  
pretty much They're just counting on everyone else. Basically, it's counting on these innovations and technologies emerging from overseas, not even trying to sort of make them happen here in Australia by sort of investing in Australian research or Australian innovation, then really just counting on it happening overseas. It's the fingers crossed. Right? Like, it's sort of like closing your eyes and taking a swing, and then hopefully, we'll get to 2050 with zero net emissions, but they don't actually know that we're going to do it for sure, man, it's

Kirk Docker  35:32  
Michael, can I ask you a question? What I what I Can I ask a dumb question. What is Boris and actually scared off by actually just going we'll just do it. You know, we'll just be zero emissions by like I can't I just from the outside, I can't quite work out what is the is it? Is it just the the bowing down to call? Is it that they worry about being real at what is actually they're scared of actually about to say yes, we'll just do it.

Michael Mazengarb  35:58  
So the modeling actually answers that question. So they modeled a few different alternate scenarios. One scenario is we actually do get to zero net emissions. And we plan that and we bridge that lost 15%, basically, by investing in carbon sequestration, and doing that through planting trees. And that modeling shows, that scenario shows that the coal sector and the gas sector lose out in the order of about $4.9 billion. But landholders, so farmers benefit by almost an equivalent amount. And so they have this scenario that says we can actually get to zero net emissions call losers out, farmers win. But we're not going to pick that scenario, because that's a negative impact on the economy that they don't like. So we're going to go to this 85%. So it's purely this comparison between farmers versus fossil fuels, and the government picked fossil fuels.

Lewis Hobba  36:58  
My favorite thing about it is that usually when someone releases something like modeling, or any kind of data, usually politicians will be smart enough to make it so complicated, that average people like me, can't really get to the bottom of it, you sort of get obfuscated by information. And in the end, you kind of like, it could be true. But they literally put out the like the for chunk graph, which genuinely, genuinely just had 15%. Wait, no. And it was that was what I was like, Oh, thank you for making your incompetence, easy for the incompetent, I really do appreciate that.

Michael Mazengarb  37:32  
And the modeling itself is a real reflection of how the government got to its policy. So they went away and they paid McKinsey that consultancy $6 million to produce the first round of economic modeling. They then brought in a team of basically coalition aligned economists, including Brian Fisher, who their previous work was they authored modeling, which was used to attack the labour government's climate policies in the lead up to the federal election last time round, which came up with these crazy figures for how much that policy was going to cost and basically was just slammed for not having any credibility. They brought those guys in to then review and verify the McKinsey modeling. And then the department itself wrote the report. So they've really like massage this modeling together. And still, it's really explicit. And it's really clear what the government is doing, and who they're siding with.

Dan Ilic  38:30  
I noticed the other last week there was a story about McKinsey employees being pissed off that there were being press ganged into doing work like this, but not not explicitly for Australia, but for to fossil fuel companies and for for bad actors on this on this on the same. Do you think these consulting groups will eventually stop doing this kind of work for the government?

Michael Mazengarb  38:54  
I think I mean, for this this piece of work in particular, like the reputational damage the reputational risk that is there is quite significant if you've got your name your brand attached to what then becomes potentially sort of political modeling and political reports. You go look, it's not worth it. Like the brand damage that occurs is so significant that you know, it's probably not going to be worth the $6 million because they're going to lose out on other contracts and their reputation gets damaged.

Dan Ilic  39:24  
But it is $6 million to do some maths that doesn't like if like it like if they wanted to live

Lewis Hobba  39:30  
in a world where lying isn't rewarded but I don't know if we do Michael.

Michael Mazengarb  39:37  
I mean I work in the the energy sector I write about energy all the time. A lot of my friends work in the energy sector. And we look at this morning you go look, we could have done a lot better than rustled up five of us we could have produced a million bucks each and done a lot better.

Dan Ilic  39:56  
Is there like a website we can go to to try and A job to take the modeling away from McKinsey at a much, much more competitive price like, can we?

Michael Mazengarb  40:06  
Well, that was something that interestingly, McKinsey was chosen to do this modeling, the CSIRO had actually also pitched to do the modeling. And this came out also in Senate estimates, they said, Look, we applied to the government, we would have done the modeling for the government. To CSIRO, it's gonna be some of Australia's best minds in terms of energy and climate. And they didn't pick them, they picked McKinsey, who Angus Taylor used to work for

Kirsten Drysdale  40:33  
the government given given any explanation for that decision.

Michael Mazengarb  40:37  
No, I think, you know, it was it was the CSIRO that sort of revealed that they had applied for it, they didn't want to really, you know, throw their, you know, the government under the bus because, you know, if you're in the CSIRO, you, you sort of pretty wary about how much control the federal government has over your funding. But, you know, we try and

Dan Ilic  40:58  
find out, are they public servants out there that have done their own modeling, like, you know, in the CSIRO, what are the is the modeling done somewhere else, but it's like in a cabinet that no one can unlock and look at

Michael Mazengarb  41:10  
it could be. The other thing is we have these bodies, like we have bodies, like the CSIRO, we have bodies, like the climate change authority, which still exists, but just basically sits dormant, that could be used to produce this type of modeling. previous governments have used treasury to produce this type of modeling, all of this modeling could be done in house in the government, or it could be done, you know, in a way that is done in consultation with the industry. But this route of modeling is really just sort of been a bit of a, you know, a message job from the government.

Dan Ilic  41:42  
Oh, my God.

Kirk Docker  41:44  
He said just that, is it just that the government gets so much money from these companies that they need it, or they actually think this is a better play for Australians, they genuinely believe this is a better play for Australians. What? I don't quite understand it still, it's still so confusing to

Michael Mazengarb  42:00  
me. I don't know like, you know, it seems like you know, I sit there every day. And you look at the advances that are being achieved in wind, and solar and batteries and electric vehicles. And you think these are the technologies of the future, if you want to talk about technologies, not taxes, like these are the technologies that are emerging, and we should be investing in those. But yet, we're talking about carbon capture and storage. You know, the Australian delegation in Glasgow had the Santos, CCS irama in the official pavilion, like, I don't, and not to say like that they completely sold and, but it's hard to know, like, how they think this is playing out and what motivates them asides from maybe self interest.

Dan Ilic  42:48  
It's interesting to say like, technologies like this are kind of being rolled out all around the world, like as in every single country that is beholden to fossil fuels, you see the same playbook being rolled out in every other place like carbon capture storage doesn't work anywhere yet. Every other country that is a big exporter of fossil fuels is trying it on as a way to placate their donors and to to keep fossil fuels alive another few years, but it's really just like a conceptual art sphincter in the ground like it did. It doesn't do anything like it. It's meant to capture gas, but no gas ever gets captured.

Michael Mazengarb  43:20  
We have one operational project here in Australia that's out. In Gorgon in Western Australia that's been run by Chevron, it was years late, it's operating well below capacity, they they put hundreds of millions of dollars into this thing. And they can't get it fully operational because it's trying to store carbon under the seabed. But the equipment they're using to store it is getting clogged with sand. They didn't see that happening. But our one carbon capture and storage project is running at like half capacity.

Dan Ilic  43:53  
When you're talking about carbon capture storage as one of the key elements of the modeling. I remember seeing a map put up on put up on Twitter, of all the places where we're going to store carbon underground, if you see this map, there's just large patches of blue where the carbon is going to be stored underground. and This Is Mythical kind of cave system. It's remarkable to kind of see that you're like, oh, wow, instead of like, instead of not putting that fossil fuel into the air, they're just gonna poison the earth, and like bury it under huge tracts of land. Deck surely doesn't seem to me any better than than chucking in the air?

Michael Mazengarb  44:33  
I think, you know, I would like to have the confidence of someone who pushes carbon capture and storage because they're saying, Look, we'll just count this stuff under the ground and it will just stay there and I'll stay there forever. But like, we don't really know that much about what's going down underneath the ground like things like earthquakes happen the ground, the sort of geology is constantly moving to think that we can just put stuff down there and expect it to last for Ever is just a bit sort of, I think ambitious a bit, I think

Lewis Hobba  45:06  
maybe your way if you if we want to try to like harness a very vocal like right wing group to end up sort of playing themselves, here's my here's my big play, you need to start linking to Q Anon, that carbon capture and storage is a secret government program to kill the lizard people. Now, once we get that in their heads, they're gonna be like, but the lizard we need the lizard people. And then we'll there'll be a save the lizard people campaign from Q Anon, which will end up meaning they are attacking carbon capture and storage, and then suddenly we'll have all of Q anon on the side of renewable energies.

Dan Ilic  45:45  
Excellent. This is great. This is a great idea, Lewis I think you've cracked it and we all know Scott Morrison love Q anon he's got his best mate, which is these cute guy and he's out there. He's he's out there. Tell me. Tell him the state premieres. No, we should let it rip. You know these q&a on people they know what they're talking about.

Kirk Docker  46:05  
I love it. I love that cute.

Dan Ilic  46:07  
Well, on that note, that is it for rational fi big thank you to all of our guests this week. Have you got anything to plug cook? You can

Kirk Docker  46:14  
ask that comes out in

Lewis Hobba  46:16  
set a reminder, check your calendars

Kirk Docker  46:21  
don't miss it.

Kirsten Drysdale  46:22  
No got nothing on sorry, some hokey comp in Newcastle next week. That's about it. People can come and check you out. Tigers, tigers, mid target Miko

Kirk Docker  46:35  
Johnny sagas.

Michael Mazengarb  46:37  
So I work for renew economy, we write every day on climate energy electric vehicles. So if you want to get your fix on that news, renewal economy is your one

Dan Ilic  46:48  
stop shop. Great. And Louis, we've got something to plug on January 29. We're going to be having our 10 year anniversary show at the Sydney Opera House.

Lewis Hobba  47:00  
I've heard of it. I've heard of it. I'm very excited. We we have done one show at the opera house before in fact with Bob Carr,

Dan Ilic  47:09  
I believe. Kirsten, Kirsten. Kirsten did that. All right. Yeah. That was great. Yeah,

Lewis Hobba  47:15  
I'm really excited about that. I assume the Playhouse I see. We're in the big theater.

Dan Ilic  47:20  
I hope so. Play us all the drama theater. I'll take either one, but I know it's booked. I mean, I mentioned

Lewis Hobba  47:24  
the concert hall put us in the concert hall. No,

Dan Ilic  47:27  
put us in the opera house put us in the Opera Theater. Sure. Yeah.

Lewis Hobba  47:33  
Big big one. Yeah. 1000 More people are listening awake now. Come on. That's half an opera.

Dan Ilic  47:39  
Fill it. So agenda 29

Kirsten Drysdale  47:41  
and three hemas Lewis will pay on someone's face on stage.

Lewis Hobba  47:47  
It does. It takes in a very different quality when it's a man.

Kirsten Drysdale  47:52  
I was thinking that I was thinking when I was watching that. This is so awesome. Because it's a visit to the lady. If this was a guy peeing on a girl's face. It just wouldn't feel the same. Something about squatting. I reckon. I don't really read Yeah,

Kirk Docker  48:07  
you could do the talk, Louis. I could do the

Lewis Hobba  48:09  
typing. I will do the something which is even worse, which is I'll bring my saxophone and play a cover of a heavy metal song.

Dan Ilic  48:17  
That reminds me we should we should put James Valentine Fisher

Lewis Hobba  48:23  
all the weird white guys who play sex.

Dan Ilic  48:26  
Big thank you to all of our new patreon supporters this this month. Last estivesse J Smith Helen shorts Darren Reed Sharon Yoxall Peter kin and Jan Jan Williamson, Kate, Bill F Michelle law Shelby Stewart Toby strat man, Steve Steve Hutchison Deena airfree aunty, and a big thank you to a Tasha Shanna who said I forgot to read out her name the first time around. So thank you, Tasha Shana, for becoming a Patreon members. A big thank you to you Michael meson God who was also one of our longtime Patreon supporters. Also big thanks to Roadmaster Bertha Foundation, Lee constable and Jacob round on the Teppan yaki timeline. Until next week, there's always something to be fearful of. Until then, right

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