Today's episode is about learning to sit with uncertainty. The episode opens with a discussion of listener questions on how to handle risk, the ingredients of a great apology, and why people stay loyal to relationships and organizations that quietly drain them. Then Brené and Adam turn to uncertainty – how our brains are wired for a threat response, what intolerance of uncertainty actually is, and why it can drive people toward authoritarian leaders.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop).
0:00 - Introduction and Guest Questions
3:20 - Is Risk Something to Review or Reveal
13:40 - Why do People Stay Loyal to Bad Relationships?
22:28 - Strategies for Apologizing and Repair
32:33 - Is Uncertainty a Strength or Deficit for Leaders?
40:15 - Intolerance for Uncertainty
52:00 - Terror Management Theory and our Response to Uncertainty
59:50 - How Can We Manage Uncertainty
1:05:00 - Closing
Show Notes:
Capabilities, Cognition and Inertia: Evidence from Digital Imaging - Tripsas and Gavetti, 2000, Harvard Business School (Polaroid Study)
The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth - Amy Edmondson, 2019, Book
Is it Safe to Speak Up at Work? - Adam Grant and Amy Edmonson, July 2021, Worklife with Adam Grant Podcast
Anchored, Aligned, Accountable: A Framework for Transcending Bullsh*t and Transforming Our Lives and Work (Foreword by Brené Brown) - Aiko Bethea, 2026, Book
Predicting Exit Voice Loyalty and Neglect - Withey and Cooper, 1989, Administrative Science Quarterly
Exit, Voice, and Loyalty: Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States - Albert Hirschman,1970, Book
The Decision Lab: System Justification Theory
The Secrets of a Great Apology - Adam Grant and Beth Polin, 2025, WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast
The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships - Harriet Lerner, 2025, Book
I’m Sorry: How to Apologize and Why It Matters, Part 1 of 2 - Brené Brown and Harriet Lerner, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast
Conclave - Robert Harris, 2016, Book
A Comprehensive Analysis of COVID-19 Misinformation, Public Health Impacts, and Communication Strategies: Scoping Review - Kisa, 2024, Journal of Medical Internet Research
Into the Unknown: A Review and Synthesis of Contemporary Models Involving Uncertainty - Carleton, 2016, Journal of Anxiety Disorders
Conceptual Models of Generalized Anxiety Disorder - Fisher and Wells, 2011, Psychiatric Annals
The Other Side of Change: Who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans - Maya Shankar, 2026, Book
Aftereffects of Stress on Human Performance and Social Behavior: A Review of Research and Theory - Cohen (Includes the work of Glass and Singer), 1980, Carnegie Mellon Research University
Hofstede's Cultural Dimensions on Uncertainty Avoidance
Compensatory Conviction in the Face of Personal Uncertainty: Going to Extremes and Being Oneself - Mcgregor et al., 2001, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
Are Needs to Manage Uncertainty and Threat Associated With Political Conservatism or Ideological Extremity? - Jost et al, 2007, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin
The Causes and Consequences of a Need For Self-esteem: A Terror Management Theory - Greenberg, Pyszczynski, & Solomon, 1986, Book chapter
Foolproof: Why We Fall for Misinformation and How to Build Immuninity - Sander van der Linden, 2023, Book
Utterly Humbled by Mystery - Richard Rohr, 2006, NPR Morning Edition
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
