Building a Skills-Based Organization with Koreen Pagano
Workplace Stories by RedThread Research
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Dani Johnson and Stacia Garr introduce Koreen Pagano and the episode's theme about building skills-based organizations.
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On the latest episode of Workplace Stories, we sit down with Koreen Pagano, author of "Building a Skills-Based Organization," to talk about one of the hottest and most complex topics in the world of work: how organizations can become truly skills-based, and what that really means in today’s rapidly changing, AI-driven landscape. The conversation was loaded with practical insights, candid stories, and wisdom from the front lines of workforce transformation.
Koreen shares her journey from ed-tech and product leadership to guiding hundreds of organizations through the maze of skills transformation. We discuss the crucial front-of-house and back-of-house elements, from clear communication and partnership models to building the right data and technology infrastructure. You’ll hear fresh perspectives on using skills data as an early signal for retention, the shifting role of tasks versus skills, and what it means to future-proof your workforce for ongoing change.
You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...
Why Skills Still Matter in a “Task-Talk” World
There’s a persistent misconception that the age of “skills” has passed and that “tasks” offer a more practical lens, especially with AI in play. Koreen shares how, at a recent industry event, she heard professionals say, “We don’t need to worry about skills, we have to focus on tasks.” But she thinks that it’s misguided to abandon skills just when organizations are barely starting to understand and leverage them.
While tasks describe the work to be done, skills reflect the underlying human (and sometimes machine) capabilities that make that work possible. Both are crucial, but without a foundational understanding of your organization's skills, mapping tasks is like building on sand.
Front of House, Back of House, and Getting Skills Right
We need to balance “front of house” and “back of house” considerations when building a skills-based organization. Organizations often focus either on external communications, partnerships, and culture (front of house), or purely on technology, data, and infrastructure (back of house), but rarely both. Koreen is unique in straddling the two, and it’s this holistic approach, blending people and process with tech and data, that sets successful organizations apart.
The Evolution of Data and the Rise of Skills Verification
Organizations are beginning to realize that their skills data isn’t just about upskilling or reskilling; it’s tightly connected to business-critical outcomes like retention, performance, and the ability to adapt to market shifts. Koreen shares compelling examples of using skills data to provide early warning on issues like employee retention, demonstrating data-driven HR in action.
She also shared her pragmatic “3Vs” model for validating skills data: Validity (how well the data measures what it claims to), Variety (different types of data from varied sources), and Volume (quantity and frequency of data collected). You can make solid business decisions with basic self-reported skills data, but for higher-stakes calls, like hiring, you need much more rigorous, validated information.
Jobs, Skills, and the Trap of Static Structures
Often, organizations anchor their skills strategy to their job architecture. Consultants and technology vendors frequently push companies to start by mapping skills to static jobs. We discuss why this is a dangerous place to “end”, because jobs, roles, and the tasks that define them are changing faster than ever, especially with AI in the mix. Koreen advocates for designing skills data that is flexible, lives independently, and can be mapped to jobs and tasks as they evolve, never becoming held hostage by legacy structures.
Goals Over Tasks
Perhaps the most powerful call to action was the need to focus less on micromanaging the “how” (a long list of tasks) and more on the “what and why”, the goals, outcomes, and genuine business objectives. In a future where work is constantly shifting, organizations that empower people around purpose, supported by dynamic skills data, will outperform those stuck mapping today’s tasks to yesterday’s job charts.
Building a skills-based organization isn't a project with a tidy endpoint, it’s a transformation. As Koreen reminds us, it’s hard, messy, and as much about culture as it is about data. But for the organizations (and the people) willing to experiment, adapt, and keep skills at the center of strategy, the payoff is a workforce that’s ready for whatever comes next.
Resources & People Mentioned
Connect with Koreen Pagano
Connect With Red Thread Research
Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES
Koreen shares her journey from ed-tech and product leadership to guiding hundreds of organizations through the maze of skills transformation. We discuss the crucial front-of-house and back-of-house elements, from clear communication and partnership models to building the right data and technology infrastructure. You’ll hear fresh perspectives on using skills data as an early signal for retention, the shifting role of tasks versus skills, and what it means to future-proof your workforce for ongoing change.
You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...
- [05:17] Skills vs job architecture approaches.
- [10:04] Navigating skills-based organizations.
- [14:33] Workforce data challenges with AI.
- [23:04] Skills over jobs for strategy.
- [27:04] Building resilient data systems.
- [34:33] Building trust in skill data.
- [39:32] Predicting employee retention through data.
- [45:59] Helping organizations align AI transformation with business goals.
Why Skills Still Matter in a “Task-Talk” World
There’s a persistent misconception that the age of “skills” has passed and that “tasks” offer a more practical lens, especially with AI in play. Koreen shares how, at a recent industry event, she heard professionals say, “We don’t need to worry about skills, we have to focus on tasks.” But she thinks that it’s misguided to abandon skills just when organizations are barely starting to understand and leverage them.
While tasks describe the work to be done, skills reflect the underlying human (and sometimes machine) capabilities that make that work possible. Both are crucial, but without a foundational understanding of your organization's skills, mapping tasks is like building on sand.
Front of House, Back of House, and Getting Skills Right
We need to balance “front of house” and “back of house” considerations when building a skills-based organization. Organizations often focus either on external communications, partnerships, and culture (front of house), or purely on technology, data, and infrastructure (back of house), but rarely both. Koreen is unique in straddling the two, and it’s this holistic approach, blending people and process with tech and data, that sets successful organizations apart.
The Evolution of Data and the Rise of Skills Verification
Organizations are beginning to realize that their skills data isn’t just about upskilling or reskilling; it’s tightly connected to business-critical outcomes like retention, performance, and the ability to adapt to market shifts. Koreen shares compelling examples of using skills data to provide early warning on issues like employee retention, demonstrating data-driven HR in action.
She also shared her pragmatic “3Vs” model for validating skills data: Validity (how well the data measures what it claims to), Variety (different types of data from varied sources), and Volume (quantity and frequency of data collected). You can make solid business decisions with basic self-reported skills data, but for higher-stakes calls, like hiring, you need much more rigorous, validated information.
Jobs, Skills, and the Trap of Static Structures
Often, organizations anchor their skills strategy to their job architecture. Consultants and technology vendors frequently push companies to start by mapping skills to static jobs. We discuss why this is a dangerous place to “end”, because jobs, roles, and the tasks that define them are changing faster than ever, especially with AI in the mix. Koreen advocates for designing skills data that is flexible, lives independently, and can be mapped to jobs and tasks as they evolve, never becoming held hostage by legacy structures.
Goals Over Tasks
Perhaps the most powerful call to action was the need to focus less on micromanaging the “how” (a long list of tasks) and more on the “what and why”, the goals, outcomes, and genuine business objectives. In a future where work is constantly shifting, organizations that empower people around purpose, supported by dynamic skills data, will outperform those stuck mapping today’s tasks to yesterday’s job charts.
Building a skills-based organization isn't a project with a tidy endpoint, it’s a transformation. As Koreen reminds us, it’s hard, messy, and as much about culture as it is about data. But for the organizations (and the people) willing to experiment, adapt, and keep skills at the center of strategy, the payoff is a workforce that’s ready for whatever comes next.
Resources & People Mentioned
Connect with Koreen Pagano
Connect With Red Thread Research
- Website: Red Thread Research
- On LinkedIn
- On Facebook
- On Twitter
Subscribe to WORKPLACE STORIES
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