Opening: Today's chaotic morning

Three years ago, I had a fun idea for Valentine’s Day: I would bring my wife Phoebe on the Tangle podcast.

My idea was that the two of us could sit down, have a glass of wine, and talk about our lives, Tangle, Phoebe’s first year of law school, a little bit of politics, and have a few good laughs. But, as I probably should have expected, the show took on some more depth. We got very personal. We talked about the challenges of our relationship, of our move from New York to Philly, and of trying to bounce back in the post-Covid world.

Immediately after publishing the episode, I was inundated with emails from people saying how much they loved the episode, how candid it was, and how interesting my very smart and quick-witted wife was as a guest. So, in 2024, we did it again. And then again in 2025. And now, in 2026, with the fourth-ever Valentine’s Day podcast, I think we can officially call it a tradition.

Last year, when we recorded the podcast, we were less than a month into having our first child, and Phoebe was entering her last semester of law school. This year, we discussed Phoebe’s experience so far as a public defender, her thoughts on cash bail, what has surprised her about the job, how she feels defending people guilty of real crimes, and what being a mom and an attorney is like. We then shared our favorite things about our son and some nice things about each other (because it’s Valentine’s Day, after all). Also, we break some personal news.

So, today, I’d like to say Happy Valentine’s Day. I hope you enjoy the episode (and this new tradition). Also, Phoebe says if the comments section is mean, she’s not coming back — so be nice.

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Our Executive Editor and Founder is Isaac Saul. Our Executive Producer is Jon Lall.

This podcast was edited and engineered by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Jon Lall.

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