Evidence for alternative governance

While the podcast team is taking a Radical Sabbatical, Kim is interviewing authors of the books that have had a big impact on her in the past two years. In this episode she’s speaking with Eric Ries about his new book, Incorruptible, Why Good Companies Go Bad... and How Great Companies Stay Great.  

All too often, founders start a company and hire an incredible team dedicated to building a company that will solve an important problem and leave the world better off.  Then they get a taste of success and life is good.  But all too often, the bankers and lawyers swoop in and the demands to “maximize shareholder value” set in.  More often than not, the company succumbs to the gravitational pull of mediocrity–or worse.  Compromises are made, rationalizations abound, and after a while people start to wonder “how did this happen?!”  

Eric has thought deeply about how to structure companies so that they can remain true to their purpose and achieve great financial results.  In his interview with Kim, he shares his extensive research on companies, both contemporary and some many decades old, who have been able to make this work.  

Background on Eric Ries: Over the last two decades, Eric Ries’s ideas about continuous innovation, long-term thinking, governance, and market reform have reshaped company building and management practices. He is the creator of the Lean Startup method and the author of the New York Times bestseller The Lean Startup, The Leader’s Guide, and The Startup Way. As a founder, Eric has put his own ideas into practice with the Long-Term Stock Exchange (LTSE); Answer.AI, an AI R&D lab; Virgil, a legal services startup; and IMVU. On The Eric Ries Show, he talks with world-class technologists, thought leaders, and executives building for the long-term. He lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with his wife and three children.  His new book, Incorruptible, will be released in May of 2026.  

CHAPTERS

(00:00) Introduction to Eric Ries and His Work

(01:31) The Motivation Behind 'Incorruptible'

(04:28) The Dark Side of Business Practices

(05:08) The Haunting Story of Vectura and Philip Morris

(12:58) The Consequences of Corporate Governance

(15:20) The Historical Context of Corporate Purpose

(18:37) The Evolution of Corporate Purpose

(22:07) The Impact of Purpose-Driven Companies

(25:33) Understanding Financial Gravity

(30:55) The Unconscious Forces in Corporations

(34:43) Resisting the Pull of Mediocrity

(39:14) Navigating Power Dynamics in Organizations

(40:04) The Naivety of Value Creation

(41:05) The Dilemma of Founder Control

(42:34) Building Institutional Protections

(43:36) Costco's Governance Fortress

(45:57) The Cost of Governance Ratings

(47:58) The Challenge of Public Companies

(51:08) Taking Action for Ethical Leadership

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