Indian Immigrants' Fertility in the U.S.

India’s population bomb is fizzling out faster than most people realize. Over 5,000 government schools now sit completely empty (zero students!), with numbers surging 24% in just two years — mostly in states like Telangana and West Bengal. We’re diving deep into India’s collapsing fertility rates (many regions already sub-1.5 or lower), why certain ethnic/religious groups are disappearing faster than others, and what this means for India’s future demographics.

We compare this to Japan and South Korea’s school closures due to depopulation, bust the myth that “India will outbreed everyone,” and discuss why Indian immigrants in the US maintain stable fertility (~1.6, similar to whites) while resisting aspects of modern urban culture. Topics include:

* In-group hiring preferences & H-1B controversies

* Cultural isolation that protects against fertility collapse

* Nuanced pros/cons of Indian communities in America (safety, values, economic contribution vs. potential downsides)

* Nick Fuentes’ recent anti-Indian rhetoric — is it fair, or controlled opposition?

* Gender dynamics, arranged marriages, and why some Indian cultural traits help resist “urban monoculture”

This is a raw, unfiltered conversation on natalism, migration, ethnicity, and the future of populations. If you’re interested in demographics, pronatalism, or immigration realism — hit play.

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna be talking about the disappearance of Indians, the, the Indian Ethnic Group of India. I will start with a interesting article here, over 5,000 government schools in India. Sit empty with zero students, 70% in the states of Al and West Bongo.

Is this another

Simone Collins: Somali fraud problem or what?

Malcolm Collins: This, this from the natal subreddit? No. So these are, these are in India. Their schools are sitting empty because of low birth rates, not fraud.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, not fraud. Just abandoned. Wow. Like that very sad documentary about Korean schools where they had one student left and they were keeping the school open and they were like, it was really creepy because they would like do tours of the school.

You know how Koreans are like very obsessed with, but there was

Simone Collins: this one kid sweeping up a classroom that only teacher, no, no.

Malcolm Collins: The teachers, the staff were like, they kept everything spotless for, for one kid, like all of the classrooms and everything. It’s [00:01:00] like when

Simone Collins: Albert King concert Albert died and Queen Victoria like insisted on having his.

Breakfast made each morning and all these things set out for him. Like his clothes laid out. ‘cause she, yeah, no, it’s, it’s really

Malcolm Collins: weird the way, but it’s a grieving

Simone Collins: thing. This is not a function thing, it’s a grieving thing.

Malcolm Collins: There’s the Japanese town that ended up replacing all the kids with, with straw dummies.

Simone Collins: No, just to make the, what, like one kid in the town feel less lonely. Totally not creeped out. No. Now there’s

Malcolm Collins: straw dummies playing on the swings and on

Simone Collins: the slide. What if it was just a great troll though? What if they actually really hated kids and they’re like, I, I will terrify idea for you. This

Malcolm Collins: kid with some Miyazaki stuff right here.

No, this kid’s gonna walk around and, and think their entire generation is turned into straw.

Simone Collins: Oh my gosh though again, amazing troll. Like, you know, you’re the grocery store owner, kid starts acting up. Listen kid. You wanna know what happened to the last kid who messed around in my grocery store? Straw man.

Malcolm Collins: It literally to me [00:02:00] feels like a Stephen King book or something. You’re kid, kid, you move to this town, everyone else is, all the other children are straw and all the adults act like it’s totally normal. Yeah. Like that’s just Benny. What are you talking about? I would, we need to do that to our kids. We need to take them to that town and then to just be like this.

All of those, this is what happens to bad kids in Japan. Stuff that our kids believe about how the world works. They believe in Wingos and, and oh,

Simone Collins: Octavian was telling me this morning that he doesn’t think Wendigo are real. He thinks we’re trolling him, but yet Titan was just building new lore last night, asking about, what was it?

Creaky man. Creaky man. Yeah, creaky man who lives in a cave that’s pink and purple with maybe some blue.

Malcolm Collins: With maybe some blue. She’s not sure, but he is scary. Yeah. And he lives in a pink and purple cave anyway. No. They see what we’re doing and I think that they’re internalizing that. It’s like, oh, we’re like building stories of the family.

I’m gonna do that too. But anyway.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Of the [00:03:00] 10.13 Locke, 1.013 million government schools across India 5,149 have no students at all. And more than 70% of these schools, which reported zero enrollment in the 2024 to 2025 academic year are located in the states of Ngal in West Bengal according to government.

Simone Collins: Are people migrating out of them, like due to climate issues? We’ll get

Malcolm Collins: to it in a second. Okay. So curious. The broader cat category of schools was less than 10% or zero. Enrollment has also seen a surge according to data shared by the education ministry in Parliament recently. Hmm. The number of such government schools has grown by 24% over the last two years.

52,309 in 2022 to 2023 to 65,054 in 2024, 2025. These schools now account for 6.42% of the country’s government schools. So six oh, like. Six and a half percent of the country [00:04:00] schools are empty. The government said in a written reply to questions, and this has grown by 25% over the past two years by MP P ro.

Nobody cares about these names anyway. And the lower TFR southern states of India have returned TFR of Talem NADA of 1.4 Ara Polish, 1.5 ra. Five. These are actually a little high. I got some more updated numbers here. So let’s pull the updated Indian TFR numbers and yeah. And also

Simone Collins: for comparison, what percentage of Japanese schools have shut down to declining population and what percentage of South Korean schools have shut down due to declining population?

Malcolm Collins: We should know that to continue here. If you look at this map of ignia, then I’m putting on the screen here.

Simone Collins: So in Japan, there’s been a decline of less than 20%. But a rough back of the [00:05:00] envelope comparison suggests that the order of 20 to 25% of the school stock that existed a few decades ago has been shut down or consolidated.

And in South Korea it’s 30 to 35%. But still it’s impressive that India would even see as much as the 6% decline because the message that that we get is that in India is fine, soon everyone’s gonna be Indian. Like that’s the hugest population. It’s And power

Malcolm Collins: also talk about this in the context of like, Nick Fuentes has decided that now Indians are the worst people ever.

Simone Collins: Oh boy.

Malcolm Collins: Going off about, I think it’s mostly.

Simone Collins: Actually, there was something I heard about, it must be due to H one B visas because I think a lot of Americans are just really fed up with them. I don’t think it’s

Malcolm Collins: due to H one B visas actually. Really? So I, I think it’s specifically the guy, the Romanian troll TV guy who has a lot of overlap with us in podcast fans.

He said recently something that really begun to aid at me and I might do a separate episode on it. Ooh. But he said. Suppose Nick Fuente, like was not [00:06:00] a, a plant designed to sabotage the Republican party. Why does

Simone Collins: everyone think he’s a plant?

Malcolm Collins: No. Hold on. Hold on. This is where I had always dismissed this in the past.

Yeah. And then he said it this way and it completely changed my mind. Okay. Suppose he’s not. Okay. Is there a single thing, and this is called controlled opposition. Is there a single thing, position? Anything that he’s done in, I’d say the past five years, that he would do differently if he wasn’t controlled.

Opposition. Is there a single position that he would hold differently? And the answer is when I started to think through it, no. I literally can’t think of a position, a single position that he holds because he’ll do stuff like Glaze Gavin Newsom while attacking JD Vance. And take whatever position he thinks is currently going to be the most.

Divisive was in the Republican party. And whenever election season comes around, he’s always really loud about not voting Republican. These are all the things you would expect a controlled [00:07:00] opposition party to do. And we are aware of previous right wing figures who presented themselves as openly racist, who were controlled opposition recently known like it was.

Simone Collins: Provably, what I’ve heard is

Malcolm Collins: Richard Spencer was confirmed as a controlled opposition. And now he, he’s pushing for Biden as like he had this period, well, I guess we have to

Simone Collins: define controlled opposition because we do know for a fact, because of the way that campaign donations are documented in the United States that many.

Unviable Republican candidates were backed by Democratic fundraise like, or we’ll say democratic donors in elections because they knew that if an, an overly extreme Republican candidate made it through the primary, they would be too extreme to win over the centrist vote, and therefore the Democratic candidate would win.

So the most effective use of Democratic campaign funds would be to fund. A Republican candidate that was too extreme to win a general [00:08:00] election, only a primary election among Republicans. So I think that maybe like I could see Richard Spencer, for example, being quote unquote controlled opposition without having any line of communication with.

Someone attempting to fuel that. Well,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, a lot of this stuff is done and I’m, I’m gonna do some research on it. ‘cause I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been doing research on it and the more research I do, the fishier it gets, mm-hmm. It would probably be through like ad buys and stuff like that. He might not even know that he’s entirely being Yeah.

Or like

Simone Collins: bought based subscriptions, you know, like he, he sees, oh, all these people are paying my $100 a month, you know, premium. Subscription fee, however, audience

Malcolm Collins: captured by controlled opposition box. Yeah. He doesn’t,

Simone Collins: he doesn’t know, like it just happens to be that there’s all these passive members who he doesn’t see comments from, who don’t join his group chats, but like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, but the, the reason why with the H one B visas, so I have pointed out like if you wanna attack any for the H one B visa situation, which I think is totally.

An acceptable thing and yeah, a really big tragedy that we’re having right now. You just point out that if an ethnic group [00:09:00] is coming into the United States and they have an in-group preference in hiring, which Indians demonstrably do. Yeah. And they then reach positions of seniority within an organization soon, that organization will be, especially with senior roles, overwhelmingly that ethnic group.

Yeah. This

Simone Collins: isn’t anything against. Indians or anyone who does stuff like this, not, not shame on that group, shame on the system. Like fix the system if you have a problem. Well,

Malcolm Collins: the, the way you fix the system is by stopping the H one B visa. Yeah. But the, the point being is that, I think and, and, and there’s other ways that I think it can be fixed.

Like, for example, I think we should be loose on visas for immigrants who are coming in with funded companies because I’ve always found that really silly that we do make it so hard Google. Oh, right. Because

Simone Collins: they’re actively creating jobs. They’re not taking someone else’s job. Yeah. But if they’re gonna hit, if your job Google

Malcolm Collins: or Facebook or something like that, absolutely not.

Yeah. Then you,

Simone Collins: then you are replacing someone, an American’s job.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so make it make, and right now it’s the opposite. It’s you, you sort of have to, like a lot of my immigrant friends, they sort of have to work for like five or six years in one of these big companies so that they can get [00:10:00] their immigration status and then they do the startup that they, right.

‘cause how are you gonna get a visa

Simone Collins: if you wanna go to a country to start a business? Right? Yeah. Well there are some, and, and other countries do have means of getting residency or some form of even a pathway decision. Citizenship if you invest a certain amount of money in the co, in the country. Right.

So, I don’t know, but yeah. But anyway,

Malcolm Collins: the point I was making here no, I don’t think you invest. I think if people are willing to invest in you, like if you get like x many millions from VCs or something like that. Oh yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or if, if you are the founder of, or president or CEO of a business that has this much funding and you, and I mean you must have some pledge to.

Have a certain number of jobs too, because what if it’s just an AI business that makes people, no, I don’t

Malcolm Collins: care if it’s just an AI company. If you’re coming into the United States as a rich person, that’s generally good for us. Oh, I guess ‘cause

Simone Collins: yeah, you’re, you’re still buying DoorDash, you’re still buying, you’re still

Malcolm Collins: paying taxes, you’re still, okay.

Fair point. The point here being is there is a way to point out the H one B situation and why it’s so terrible. But if you are, then. You know, [00:11:00] attacking where Nick has spent most of his attention is attacking JD Vance’s wife, for example, is, is where I’ve seen a lot of stuff. And that’s more to me, I think that if he was controlled opposition, he would expect JD Vance to be the next candidate for the US president.

And here he was much he can to undermine him. So he tries to stoke anti-Indian sentiment. Which again we’re gonna argue is kind of silly because they have fairly low fertility rates and they’re not well. Except in the United States where it’s interesting, but we’re gonna get to all of this in a second.

Hmm. Let’s look at this fertility map and I sent this to you on WhatsApp. Okay. What you can see is across India, like, like I’d say about a half of the country that a fertility rate of around like 1.5 to 1.0 my

Simone Collins: word. India. Are you okay bro? Yeah. What is going on? Dude, this is not good. And then this is India.

Everyone’s talking about how India’s this huge, okay. Oh, sorry. Texas is distressing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And then the parts that are Okay. And when I say okay, I mean, [00:12:00] I’m talking about fertility rates that are like 2.4. Like just hover? Yeah, like passable.

Simone Collins: Yeah, like basically replacement, if we’re being honest with ourselves.

Malcolm Collins: These, these regions are, are also just not that high. So let’s go into what is correlating with that, right? Because I was like, okay, well, so then what is India gonna look like in the future with this fertility pattern? So I decided to look up religion by region in India. And what you can see is the more Christian regions have very low fertility rates and the more Hindi regions have very low fertility rates and the higher fertility rates are in the.

You guessed it. Muslim regions. And, and then if you look at this one here, which then looks at more, you can still see you do have some oh, this is the second most followed religion by every district. So you can see it’s the, the Muslim regions where you see the higher fertility rate again there.

Here we can look at ethnic groups. And what you can see is the Dian ethnic group is the one that is like absolutely going extinct. This, this has the [00:13:00] most overlap. I’m not familiar with

Simone Collins: that group,

Malcolm Collins: the Endo Ians, that are doing really well. If I remember correctly, they’re the ones that are less related to European.

So for people who don’t know, Indians are a European ethnic group. They are more closely related to Europeans than they are to East Asians. Some

Simone Collins: people in the comments had an aneurysm the first time you mentioned that.

So I put this in the AI to try to figure out what we had gotten wrong and it said we were broadly correct. The one thing we did get wrong though, is that the Diane, , ethnic group in Southern India is actually one of the groups that is less related to Europeans, , and the Northern Indians who are having more kids.

So the group that’s going to replace them is actually one of the groups that is more related to Europeans.

Simone Collins: Just FYI. They were like, that’s not true.

Malcolm Collins: You could just look at the statistic.

They’re more, and, and it’s even more so when you’re talking about Brahmins, which are the ones that are coming to our country. India’s actually a state, like if you wanna go on the racist side of things, it’s actually a state where a group of European invaders came in and [00:14:00] created an ethnic caste system that still with Europeans at the top, that still existed today.

Because the, the Brahman cast comes from the, partially from the Aryan invaders that happened, I can’t remember how many centuries ago. Which was just funny to the racist people. But we often talk about you know, there are Indians are sort of like way more comfortable talking about race than other groups as well.

You know, famous white nationalist we’ve had on the show with Khan. That, that’s a joke. By the way. I call him a famous white nationalist ‘cause he’s very Indian, but like, well because he,

Simone Collins: he’s willing to discuss genetics. And, and traits?

Malcolm Collins: Well, we’ve seen that if you’re looking at genetically mm-hmm.

Like there were a survey done on like what countries would be Okay. Was doing like genetic sorting on potential partners you know, like Gatica style and like India, like was orders of magnitude at the top of the charts. And one of the reasons it’s just because they basically already do it. When you’re, when you’re getting a partner, it’s like, well, how much does your brother earn?

How much, you know? Which is basically [00:15:00] saying genetically how much are you likely to earn? Right. So we, we are gonna see some ethnic groups within India severely less represented in the future. And then the last one here is the economics of each region. And you can see that this is by far the highest overlap with the TFR.

And this is what we’ve talked about. Cultures that motivate lower economic outcomes can increase their fertility rate purely through motivating the lower economic outcomes. And yeah. And, and this means that India overall is gonna become poorer if the, the people who are having lots of kids are in the regions and the people who make less money was in the country.

But let’s talk about Indians outside of India because Indians outside of India are pretty interesting. Hmm. By the way, why do you think people had an aneurysm when I said that I, I, I figured that this should just be obvious to anyone who looks at an Indian face. Like they look like dark skinned.

No, they

Simone Collins: were, they were trying to say something about like, that’s not exactly true. It was this way instead, like something on the more technical end of the spectrum [00:16:00] where I didn’t have enough time to research their thing and also get done everything I needed to get done. So, you know what I mean? Where someone like makes a more complex claim that would require a bunch of Googling and.

I didn’t have the time at that moment

Malcolm Collins: to do so. I’ll, I’ll look it up. Sure, yeah. You put the, the, on that one I put the branching tree of human evolution so you could see when the various branches split. But Indians are, are unique branch because they’re both European branch that within, conquered by a later group of Europeans that created the caste system.

That’s wild. Well, I mean, yeah, pretty crazy. But anyway it is, and, and this is a problem actually, I, I’d say more broadly with like Indians. So, so let’s talk about this, ‘ cause I actually wanna talk about, ‘cause I think Indians are pretty nuanced here. One is when they get into other countries, they have decent fertility rates.

So Indians in the United States, for example, have a fertility rate of [00:17:00] 1.6. That is way above the black population in the United States. That is, it’s

Simone Collins: about. The US norm though, isn’t it? Isn’t the US it’s

Malcolm Collins: about the white norm, isn’t it? Yeah. That’s the same fertility rate as white people. Yeah. And so they’re not like, we’re not actually like outbreeding like you could say, oh, if you’re talking about like East Asians in the United States or blacks in the United States like we are, and you could see our episode of your unfamiliar with this.

A black birth rate fell below the white birth rate this last year and is falling really quickly compared to other fertility rates. And if you’re looking at the native black population, it’s. It’s desperately low. We’re replacing them with Somalians, which is effing terrifying to me. Let’s, let’s get on that native black population and get out the Somalians.

Can we, can we do that? Like, I don’t this fraud, if people are wondering why we haven’t covered the fraud thing, it’s too depressing for me to do any research into, I just hate that billions of, billions of tax dollars are being, it’s

Simone Collins: really painful to think about. Yeah, because it’s not like that is just one freaking example.

And the, the, the fact that Somalians are doing it, it’s just, [00:18:00] we did an episode on ethnic cartels which sort of talks about how like within certain ethnic groups you’ll get these clusters of industries. A lot of, because like, you know, people are hiring trusted relations, et cetera. Like, it’s really easy to sort of train people in these zones and then like bring in family.

So of course Solans are doing it like, but there, I bet there are other ethnic groups that are, you know, of course and including white groups that are doing. Similar levels of fraud also. There are tons, hold on. No, no, no. In our area won’t, that is

Malcolm Collins: demonstrably not true. Sorry, I have to interrupt you.

Okay. There is no other, there’s certainly no white group in the United States right now that’s doing on the tune of $8 billion in one state. No, no, no. That is

Simone Collins: really, yeah, the, the, the well, and again, the reason why ethnic cartels. Are able to do their thing primarily does involve immigrant groups and also illegal low paid immigrants and like sort of almost like refugee or inte servitude levels of No, [00:19:00] I would be shocked.

I would be shocked. Native white populations just don’t have the same, we’ll say strategic advantages or abilities to engage in ethnic cartels in the United States. Well,

Malcolm Collins: they don’t have the same in-group trust. Yeah. They might be able to do this in another country, but in the united. States, I can say categorically that’s not happening.

Yeah. Fair. Out outside of like maybe like large businesses that are getting government contracts or something like that. In, in which case that’s more just like business corruption stuff. Yeah. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there was at least one or two other ethnic groups running a scam of a similar scale.

Yeah. But, but keep in mind the Somalian scam is something that like we should have been aware of, like there like the. A, a desperately, like even for Africa, Somalia is desperately poor, right? Like mm-hmm. If you’re importing a bunch of people from there you, you’re, you’re unlikely to get the, the, a huge amount of economic productivity.

And this is where I was gonna get to is what I was saying about Indians. Indians are unique in that if I was importing a large group of [00:20:00] Somalians and I’m looking at, you know, what they’re doing in terms of their sort of economic productivity, likeliness of running scams, et cetera, was in the United States.

I would say that there. Probably gonna be a net drain on the country. Mm-hmm. But Indians are different.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because they, in this case, it’s mostly Brahmans, right. Immigrating over and, and like, they’re sort of the most educated, the most wealthy who are coming, which is one reason why their birthdays are solo.

No, nobody’s, they’re already, it’s not just that.

Malcolm Collins: It’s not. So for people who don’t know this our neighborhood, the neighborhood Simone and I live in is 70% Indian in the United States. Yeah. And

Simone Collins: they’re, they’re immigrating. To work for a large finance company and like the pharmaceutical companies here.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but the point being is that I’m saying this as somebody who lives in a predominantly American Indian neighborhood. So I’m gonna talk about like the ups and downs of Indian immigrant populations. ‘cause I think that they. They presented nuanced sort of position. The, the upside is, is that it’s very safe.

It’s a, it’s an incredibly safe [00:21:00] community. Not only is it a safe community but it’s a community that I’m very comfortable raising my kids in. Well, they’re

Simone Collins: so nice.

Malcolm Collins: I remember. Oh yeah. All the families are

Simone Collins: great people.

Malcolm Collins: I was growing up and one of my Indian friends. Because I’ve often hung out with a lot of Indian communities and stuff like that growing up, because I grew up in Dallas, Texas, and there’s a big Indian community in Dallas, Texas.

And I remember he had a conversation with me like, dude, why are you sleeping around? He’s like, look, you should wait until you’re finished with college and get married and then you can focus on sex. It’s a giant waste of time. What? And I was like. And, and he explained this as like the way that it was taught to him by his parents and a lot of Indian immigrant kids.

Like, I, I want my kids friends to be like, dude, don’t sleep around in high school and college. Wait to get married. What are you doing?

Simone Collins: That’s weird. I I, I dated one Indian immigrant when, when I was on my like dating mm-hmm. Thing before I met you. But his whole thing was like, yeah, I’m dating now, but like, I’m gonna.

[00:22:00] Marry a nice Indian girl that my parents pick out for me, but like he was dating to have fun, but also in mind, like that’s

Malcolm Collins: actually pretty effing responsible. This is the next thing that I’m saying about Indians is that culturally they’re not particularly negative for your children to be around. You know, somebody who’s like, oh, I’m just, I, I might date now, but this is just for fooling around.

My parents are party. Yeah, that’s a message I want my kids exposed to. Totally. And, and and normalize too. Mm-hmm. So you’ve got that. You’ve got the low crime rates. Like, and keep in mind that Indians also disproportionately settle in different regions in other groups. So Indians disproportionately settle in suburbs.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Which makes them

Malcolm Collins: very different than the groups that disproportionately settle in major cities. That’s urban areas, which

Simone Collins: is part

Malcolm Collins: why you cannot get as good of Indian food in American major cities. As you can in American suburbs. Mm-hmm. This is one of the, when everyone’s like, well, if you’re in a major city, you can get better food.

I don’t think that’s the point of diversity. I’m just pointing out that like that’s but anyway. Yeah. [00:23:00] And on top of all of that Indians generally make a lot of money. They, they economically contribute and they don’t have terribly high fertility rates. What they’re here, they have stable fertility rates, like they are a useful additional population.

In addition to all of that you know, India, if you’re, if you’re talking culturally. Is outside of Europe, one of the, the longest standing Christian traditions in the world. India. Oh yeah, super, super old, I wanna say was in two generations of Jesus, they had Christian communities in India.

Ooh, it might have been within one generation of Jesus if, if some myths are true.

So by legend, Christianity arrives in India from doubting Thomas, one of the 12 apostles, roughly 30 to 33 ad. So to put that in context, if you’re like, Indians aren’t actually Christian, when did Christianity arrive in Rome? If you are a Catholic saying that, well, between. 30 and 33 ad [00:24:00] so Christianity arrived in India at around the same time that Christianity arrived in Rome For context.

Malcolm Collins: So they’ve been there for a very long time. Like they are as Christian, as Europeans are Christian. And this is one of the things when, you know Nick Voges is like America’s a Christian country. And I’m like, well, there’s a lot of really.

Ancient Christian strands within India. Now they are a lower percent of the population in India still, and they are the areas that have the extremely low fertility rate. And I wouldn’t be surprised if within the United States they have a low fertility rate as well. So, keep all that in mind. Also keep in mind that when you’re talking about Indian immigrants, not all the immigrant groups are the same.

You know, you’re gonna get you know, some you know, Hindi groups, some Muslim groups, some JIAN groups, et cetera. And they’re gonna have different cultures to them. But. I’m just sort of going through the, the broad things, but there’s a few real negatives. One is the issue of in-group preference and hiring.

As you point [00:25:00] out all of these firms around here, these finance firms I’ve applied to them. I have a Stanford MBA, I’ve never heard back from any of them, right? Like, it’s pretty clear what their strategy to hiring is, and that is not useful for an existing population. Like it is useful that they’re paying taxes and everything like that.

Like that’s great. But if. They can get hired into companies. And a lot of these companies aren’t just finance firms, they’re big pharmaceutical companies and stuff like that, that were founded in this country, and then turn branches of them into things that are hiring mono ethnically and in a way that is economically un uncompetitive that is bad.

Just a strictly bad thing, right? Mm-hmm. The secondary thing here. Is it’s, it’s strictly bad that they, they also are more likely to run scams than other populations in terms of ethnic groups. So there’s certainly nothing as bad as the Somalian scam. But it’s just something that culturally they do at a, a, a, a slightly higher rate.

But that [00:26:00] said I, I, I think you know. I would, I say, do the downsides over, over do the good sides. I think the one good side that sort of tips it for me is that Indians and Europeans have worked together in sort of the colonial project. For a very long time and had a very good working relation during that period.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And so there, there is a, a cultural symbiosis that makes the cultures easier to work harmoniously than you would expect otherwise when it, when it comes to other ethnic groups that don’t have this hugely. And other cultural groups that don’t have this hugely long history working alongside Europeans.

Now that said that that happened when there was an understood hierarchy. And now that the understood hierarchy is breaking down it might break down the. Like how good that project is at working. But the broad point I’m making here [00:27:00] is why, why don’t, why aren’t Indians in the United States hit by fertility collapse as hard as other groups?

My core answer to this is going to be because they’re better at culturally isolating themselves.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the way that they culturally isolate themselves is very resistant to the urban monoculture. So, uh mm-hmm. Having a lot of Indians, I’ll explain what I mean by this. Grown up with a lot of Indian friends.

They treat the urban monocultural pre elections and everything like that as sort of. Not like debauched and evil like traditional Christians do, right? Like mm-hmm. If you’re talking about the way, like a traditional, like evangelical would try to resist it. They’d be like, look, look at all this satanic and debauch stuff that these people are doing, right?

Mm-hmm. They treat it as. Just a pointless waste of time. Like, but why are you investing all this time in [00:28:00] dating? Like, shouldn’t you be investing it? I remember he is like Malcolm, like you are like literally just making logical arguments to me. Malcolm, you’re a smart guy. Like. If you spent all the time you spent hooking up with girls and having sex studying, you could get into a better college and make more money as an adult and get a better wife.

Like, why are you wasting time on this? He’s like, like, what do you value in life? Like clearly this isn’t going to, and it’s a very good way to sell a culture. So you have that. And then the secondary thing, which you’ve heard and you, you often see in these groups is I may, and you see a lot of in Indians, do this.

Indulge in the urban monocultural perspective. Indulge in urban monocultural ways of life. And then say, but you know, you know, and I know I’m gonna marry whoever my parents arrange for me. I’m just having fun ‘cause I’m hanging out with you guys right now. Mm-hmm. And that’s and, and if you said, [00:29:00] why, why are you gonna do that?

Like, why don’t you do things our way? The answer is twofold. That I’ve typically heard one is your way seems to be stupid. Is, is one of the answers. And they’re right. You know, it was less obvious that they were able to say this when I was growing up in the early two thousands, late nineties. And everybody thought the urban monoculture was correct, and they were able to just look at it and be like, this doesn’t seem logical to me. Okay. That’s one thing. But then the second thing is, is they have this perspective of, yeah, but I should at least try it. IE I’m gonna at least give my parents way of doing things a shot before I try the urban monocultural way of doing it.

Speaker 6: To be perfectly honest with you, I have not exactly been looking forward to this arranged marriage. Oh, not have I marrying a complete stranger. It’s crazy.,

Do you think this marriage could really work?

Speaker 8: Who knows? We can always get divorced.

Speaker 6: Of course. [00:30:00] God bless America.

Malcolm Collins: Well, there’s,

Simone Collins: it’s almost like a low key Lum rum Springer, honestly. Like two things to add to what you’re saying is I get the impression from, okay, like I grew up in a very multicultural San

Francisco school

district and Yeah, I grew up in a, a, a city just outside of San Francisco and I had a pretty, I, I imagine like pretty ethnically and racially diverse school.

Most of my friends were Asian, not Indian, but like. Vietnam, China and South Korea. And then like a couple white friends and like a couple from like, just random places like Oceania. But I noticed that like my, my elementary, I had a, an elementary friend who was in like from an Indian immigrant family.

A [00:31:00] big difference. The Indians that I’ve known, like either dated or known as a kid, their families, or they were here for economic opportunity, not for the American experience. They were not here for the culture. They were not here for fun. They were not here to change. They were here to basically. Add fuel to an existing lifestyle that was working really well for them.

It’s just they didn’t have the money to fund it, or they couldn’t live Indian culture or live out their Indian cultural ideals as well in the economy in which they were born, like in the, in this town or city in which they used to live in India. So they came to America to live out the Indian dream. Whereas people that I knew who came from Latin America w.

Were more like their families were literally coming for more like the American cultural experience, not just the American economic dream. And what’s interesting is that the immigrant parents, I, I, [00:32:00] or the immigrant families I knew who were Asian, the parents came for the economic opportunity, but the kids came like, or the kids were all about the American dream.

Like they fully integrated into American culture.

And I think this is largely downstream of how well you sell your own culture to your children. Do you make it look fun to be a, for example, Japanese American adult, , or Indian American adult,

it just doesn’t look very fun to be a Chinese American adult or a Japanese American adult. But being an Indian American adult can seem less nightmarish to a young person who’s growing up in a family like that at, at least in terms of the kids who I know who had parents who were either South Asian or East Asian.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but it was just mismatched. Like the Latin American families I knew, like really became super American, super quickly. Like everyone, the, the kids, the parents, everyone was in the, the Indians and Asian immigrant parents came for the economic [00:33:00] opportunity and wanted to keep their home culture.

But the Indian kids stayed. The the Asian kids left. And I don’t, I still can’t think about why, because both were disciplined, right? Men both had. Strong home cultures. I don’t know what the difference is and maybe it’s just Okay. So, I

Malcolm Collins: mean, I can go into, I, I think it has to do with how they relate to parents.

In, in India there seems to be more of like, like less of this in I, I, I guess, I don’t know how to put it, I haven’t seen as much friction between Indian parents and Indian children as I speak, well, my, my

Simone Collins: Asian, especially those with Chinese parents. So Vietnamese parents, there was a lot more love and care and family connection.

The ones with Chinese parents either would explicitly say that the parents didn’t love them. Or show through various like anecdotes that their parents did not show an ounce of affection.

Malcolm Collins: And, and I also, and I noticed this where I was growing up and I, I, I will say on the West Coast of the United [00:34:00] States, mm-hmm.

You will see other Asian groups where the kids can stay in their home culture for. Intergenerationally because they’ve got, you know, Chinese schools to send them to, or specific like school districts that are just meant for their culture and, and specific classes and everything. Like they’ve got the critical mass.

Indians pretty much wherever I’ve seen them in the United States. Whereas when I see Indians on the East coast or in the center of the US like in Lake Texas, sorry, not Indians, east Asians, they immediately assimilate. But Indians, it’s not the same. Indians don’t, and that’s another thing that people could say is an issue.

I mean, this is the thing and I think we need to be realistic. What I, I know

Simone Collins: actually, no. Yeah. It must be simulation because when you look at populations in Europe that are growing after migration, it’s because they also correlate highly with a lack of assimilation.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. So they’re not.

Picking up these urban monoa cultural values. Mm-hmm. At the, at the same rate. Mm-hmm. The other thing I was gonna note about Indian culture, which is also worth talking about, and this is where I would have, you know, more consternation like I would be totally cool with my boys or girls hanging out with Indian boys, [00:35:00] but Indian culture of all the cultures that I have ever hung out a lot around mm-hmm.

Has. Biggest differentiation between males and females in terms of the way that they act and their attitudes. Oh, really? So

Simone Collins: you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t be in favor of them dating Are, are boys dating Indian girls?

Malcolm Collins: They can date Indian girls and hang. I just think that they’re Indian girls are much more likely to be a bad influence.

Well, my

Simone Collins: mark brakes for Octavian, former first grade classmate who. Threw him a cute little Minecraft sword and colored it. He got an girl.

Yeah, and I wanna be clear here. Whenever I speak in generalities about a group, I don’t mean this about everyone in the group. I’ve met some Indian girls who not only didn’t come off as histrionic at all, which I think is a better term for the behavior type that I’m describing here than I use here.

, It’s just as broad histrionic personality type. , But I thought would make good wives for me. And I, I have, since meeting Simone, I have met maybe. Three or four women in my [00:36:00] entire life where I’m like, that woman would’ve been a really nice person to marry. , But one of them was an Indian girl. , So I, I want to be clear here that, there are some Indian girls that I hold in the highest of esteem in terms of the people I have met. I’m just saying that this is a broad and weird trend that I’ve noticed where the Indian guys that I have met throughout my life and become good friends with have all been. On the more stoic side of all humans I’ve met, , whereas the Indian girls that I have met and become friends with or been involved in my socials or girls have been on the more histrionic side, which is weird because these are opposite personality types.

Just in case you’re wondering, this Indian girl I met and I thought would, oh, this would make a great wife. She’s married, she’s having kids, , and she’s very politically involved, so hopefully gonna be a big player one day.

Malcolm Collins: Well, hey, it’s not bad for when you’re fooling around like I,

Simone Collins: I mean No, no, you don’t fool around on a girl that, that you were, what,

Malcolm Collins: what I would say is that I have in, in my entire life I have met, [00:37:00] multiple Kleptomaniacs, like people who despite being wealthy, like steal stuff

Simone Collins: from stories or like from other people or both?

Malcolm Collins: I met three of them and it was just known that they just regularly stole stuff from people. Every single one of them that I’ve met was an Indian girl, an ethnically Indian girl.

My god. Of the people I’ve met with obvious borderline like personality features and stuff like that. Yeah. Almost everyone I’ve met is an Indian girl. Like even when I hung out with disproportionately Indian people through many parts of my life but like Indian girls seem to be like toxic feminine in a way that is just like pretty, pretty high good.

I don’t, I don’t know. What causes that correlation? It, it, the, I I’m trying to think like, wh why is it, why, why is it that Indian. Is it like a, I’m trying to think. It might be a form of gender dimorphism, like they’re a more gender dimorphic culture, [00:38:00] which leads to more because, okay, so actually, hold on.

Here’s my thesis on what causes this. Okay. Okay. India is a more gender dimorphic culture. That’s just like an objectively true thing, right? However, Indian males phenotypically do not look like they do not max out on gender dimorphism maleness, right? Like, very few people look at an Indian male and think that guy’s a Chad or whatever, right?

And as such, they don’t adopt a highly gender dimorphic or toxic masculine identity. However, Indian women can appear extremely. Feminine, right? Mm-hmm. And as such, they are more likely to adopt sort of the toxic feminine archetype and tropes potentially.

Simone Collins: So you’re saying basically because Indian men aren’t super, super, super manly.

Phenotypically that Indian women have to be [00:39:00] more feminine. Just to differentiate, like, no. What I’m saying

Malcolm Collins: is Indian men might have a similar problem if Indian men were more muscular and taller than other ethnic groups. They’re just not. So they can’t as easily lean into that identity. But Indian women don’t look any less EFF than other ethnic groups, so it’s easier for them to lean into this archetype of the the mean girl with, you know, emotional regulation issues.

Simone Collins: I wonder,

Malcolm Collins: Whatever the case may be. It’s, it’s they’re lucky they’ve got Indian guys because that’s like the one est ethnic group of guys where I’m like, I can see them being chill enough that this would work. Yeah. But anyway and, and maybe other people haven’t noticed this trend and it’s just something I’ve noticed other people can, can write back of like.

Yeah, I’ve noticed, I, I will make a secondary note here that the ones, the Indian women I know who, who act like histrionic and sort of crazy all of them fell to the urban monoculture. So they are the ones that have moved furthest from their birth culture. [00:40:00]

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I’ve even known one. Who was like this during a phase in her life when she was becoming more urban monoculture really did, she decided actually my parents weren’t such bad people.

I should go back and take more advice from them. And she became like way more levelheaded and sane and responsible. So, I. I think that it, it could also be that Indian women are more co-evolved with their culture and really need it and do worse in an urban monocultural environment. But that’s my, that’s my take there are very offensive.

But I’d be interested to see the comments of other people have noticed this.

Simone Collins: Yeah. If I’m gonna anticipate anything, I think people are gonna be like, you can’t even make this many generalizations considering how insanely diverse. India is, but then I would counter argue that not really when the types of people from India that, that are immigrating to the United States that we are meeting are [00:41:00] typically actually from a much smaller social set.

So.

Malcolm Collins: Which is often the elite social set, which is again, like, that’s, that’s who you want as an immigrant group. So long as they aren’t displacing the existing population from companies, which is like, how would you actually, if you’re gonna build a policy that could make it possible to, have Indians immigrate into the country without it being a net negative.

I, I think what you would need to do is acknowledge the in-group preference in hiring that Indians have. Yeah, yeah. Trying to,

Simone Collins: to like fight it in some way. No, no, no. I

Malcolm Collins: think you need to acknowledge it and just make it explicitly Yeah. Just, just

Simone Collins: expect it and

Malcolm Collins: expect it and make it illegal.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Make it illegal to like specifically hire like over X percent Indians or something like that.

Do you have over X percent of x that’s just gonna get,

Simone Collins: it’s just gonna get exploited in some way? Like, that doesn’t seem right. I would, I would just say, I don’t know. I don’t have an answer. [00:42:00] It, you know, there aren’t typically easy answers to things like this, people probably said, I dunno. I dunno. I think that’s an easy answer.

Malcolm Collins: Just, just make it illegal. Like I don’t, I don’t understand. Right. Like, it, it would be a good thing and it would be a good thing for even an Indian to, to push because they could be like, look, this is the problem. I acknowledge it’s a problem. Let’s make it not a problem. Because, you know, I’m sure you would prefer Indian immigrants to Somalian immigrants.

Right. But yeah, and, and I think here, if some leftist is watching this and horrified that I’m saying that we, we need to acknowledge that these groups are. Culturally different from each other at the very least. And that that, that, that cultural differentiation leads to different behavioral patterns and economic engagement.

And some of that form forms of economic engagement, like the Somalian immigrants scam can be culturally damaging to the, the host country. I, I will also note. The one thing that I see a lot of pushback on in the right, and I think it’s right to push back on [00:43:00] is Vivek in his speech, and I quite like Vivek.

But he tried to do a speech like attacking Nick Fuentes at the recent, like, turning Point whatever conference, which we should start going to that by the way. But anyway, so he tries to do a speech, he’s like, blah, blah, blah. You know, I’m as American as anyone else. And you know, Nick Fuentes was aghast at this.

Now, of course, I point out Nick Fuentes, you’re a Catholic. That is. Less American than being an Indian. Historically speaking like that, I watch our video on this, like America was explicitly founded as an anti-Catholic country. And again, watch our, if you’re not familiar with this, we pointed out that Catholics could only vote in two of the 13 colonies.

And almost all of the founding fathers were extremely anti-Catholic except for George Washington as far as I’m aware of. But the point I’m making here is you know, he comes from a fairly recent immigrant family as well. But I, I do think that he has a, a point here, which is this. Anyone being able to go up and say, I’m just as American as anyone else, people are getting a little sick of that.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

But, , to be clear, I think it is more [00:44:00] disgusting for somebody like Nick Fuentes who is a Catholic, to say this about somebody else without any appreciation than it is for some random person to assume an American identity. , For him to gate gatekeeper an identity, which is specifically, he is just as much a guest as this Indian is quite repulsive.

Malcolm Collins: Instead of, I am really grateful that this country is hosting me, despite me not having in my ancestors not have played a part in building this country into what it is today. Mm-hmm. You know, I am, I am grateful for being hosted here. Is that sounds very ungrateful, and I do not think, I, I think that the, in, in the nineties you could say that, and that was like a trope and stuff like this.

And now we’re moving to a no. What you actually say is, I’m grateful to be here and grateful that you are willing to let me represent this movement. And I will try to stand for what the people who you know. [00:45:00] Built this country we’re, we’re, we’re standing for. And, and I’ve also heard it pointed out, I think that’s very true, that the, the founding fathers, this idea of like anyone who comes to Americas as American as anyone else that was certainly not what the founding fathers believed.

They, they were, they were quite big believers in differences in, in, in groups. And so when did that become a core to the American identity? We, we can actually probably do a separate episode on that. When did the idea that anyone who comes to America is an American as anyone else, when did that become popular?

I, yeah,

Simone Collins: I am curious to know.

Malcolm Collins: Actually. I’m gonna guess it became popular in the nineties. I, I’m gonna think it, it, it can’t, it’s, it’s gotta be a more recent thing. It, it probably has, I

Simone Collins: would say what, like, or maybe, maybe earlier, like around the Vietnam War. If it happened, I think it’s been like when I think it would correlate highly with the beginnings of criticizing America and Americans.

Like when the inward hate began would be when the. [00:46:00] Sort of outward love would begin. And then the, oh, oral America.

Malcolm Collins: Where, where, where it likely started, like if I’m actually thinking through right history, is it started, was the normalization of Catholic immigrants as being as American as non-Catholic immigrants.

Mm-hmm. And this was for people who don’t know a huge issue in America because the Catholic immigrant waves, whether it was the mafia or the mob, they always brought tons of organized crime. And people didn’t like them. Like they were seen as very non-American. And being, being seen as non-American, we, there was these huge campaigns like the Columbus Day campaign and everything like that to try to make it seem like, well Columbus, the very person who found America was a, a Catholic. Right? Like therefore being a Catholic or an Italian or whatever, like this is fine. Right? And if you today have normalized.

To like, well, Italians are as white and American as anyone else. And yet you are grinding your teeth about Latin American immigrants. I’m like, you understand that that’s basically the [00:47:00] exact same ethnic group, right? Like it is a, a Catholic majority Southern European ethnic group. A majority Southern European ethnic group.

Like, they. If, if you think that they were unjustified or this was some wrong kind of prejudice, yet you have prejudice against Latin American immigrants, that makes no sense to me. Like Latin American immigrants are more American than the Italian immigrants, specifically because the cultures that they come from, if you’re talking about cultural distance, at least.

We’re also immigrant countries and their ancestors often chose to come over in immigrant waves, making them closer to our ancestors in the Irish or Catholic immigrants.

Simone Collins: Oh, interesting.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, sorry, the Irish or Italian immigrants. So I actually think that that’s probably where it happened.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I’m curious maybe.

Maybe there’s an episode there, maybe there’s not. We can look into it. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I love you, Simone, and have a spectacular day.

Simone Collins: You too.[00:48:00]

Oh.

Malcolm Collins: We’re good.

That is wonderful and happy comments today.

Simone Collins: Indeed. Women are horrible.

Malcolm Collins: Women are horrible. That was a good, again, on

Simone Collins: base camp.

Malcolm Collins: I didn’t get a, I, I thought my, my, the tallest joke was so funny and not a lot of people commented on it.

The Erkin Society being tender, but no, no, just me. Maybe we’re dealing with a different generation of followers. I don’t know. Younger.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I don’t think this was a generation of people raised on Invader. Zm. I don’t know what to tell you. Sad but true. Sad

Malcolm Collins: but true. All right.

[00:49:00] [00:50:00]

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