Intro

Social psychologist Jonathan Haidt is at the forefront of the campaign to ban social media for under-16s and end what he calls “phone-based childhoods”.

His book, The Anxious Generation, sparked a global reckoning that has led countries like Australia and Spain to introduce laws restricting access to social media platforms.

He spoke to Amol ahead of a meeting with UK health secretary Wes Streeting about why he thinks we’re at a tipping point, whether technology is making us “stupider” and how parents can reduce their child’s smartphone use by organising local “play-bourhoods”.

A Meta spokesperson said: “We agree with Jonathan Haidt that keeping teens safe online is critical. That’s why we've made meaningful changes - like Teen Accounts - to limit who can contact teens, what they see, and their time on our apps. However, two recent independent, large-scale studies in the UK and Australia, including one from Oxford, show the complexity of teen mental health and that many factors beyond social media influence it. Any serious conversation should reflect all the evidence and social media's positive role for teens: friendship, skill-building and finding community."

Snapchat and TikTok were approached for comment.

TIMECODES

(00:03:45) Are we reaching a global turning point in how children interact with technology?

(00:05:58) Understanding why governments have been slow to respond

(00:10:23) How Meta has reacted to Jonathan Haidt’s research

(00:12:35) Exploring the claim that we are becoming ‘stupider’

(00:15:58) Phone-free schools

(00:19:13) The rise and impact of the loneliness epidemic

(00:24:38) Jonathan presents his evidence on the ‘correlation vs. causation’ debate

(00:34:09) How Jonathan addresses criticism of his work

(00:35:17) What the science shows about social media, smartphones and developing brains

(00:37:44) Why children benefit from facing adversity

(00:40:18) Jonathan Haidt’s message to children

(00:42:47) Jonathan Haidt’s message to parents

(00:49:48) Examining the argument that kids will always find ways around social media restrictions

(00:53:08) Meta’s response

GET IN TOUCH * WhatsApp: 0330 123 9480 * Email: radical@bbc.co.uk Episodes of Radical with Amol Rajan are released every Thursday and you can also watch them on BBC iPlayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m002f1d0/radical-with-amol-rajan Amol Rajan is a presenter of the Today programme on BBC Radio 4. He is also the host of University Challenge on BBC One. Before that, Amol was media editor at the BBC and editor at The Independent.

Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Anna Budd. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. Technical production was by Dafydd Evans. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.