Thermal management as national security

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with David Tearse, co-founder and CEO of Karman Industries, to explore a piece of the AI boom that rarely gets attention: thermal infrastructure.

As hyperscale data centers grow into multi-gigawatt “AI factories,” the limiting factor is no longer just chips or capital — it’s how efficiently we can move and reject heat. David explains how Karman’s Heat Processing Unit (HPU) reimagines cooling from first principles, bringing aerospace-grade turbomachinery and modern power electronics to a decidedly unglamorous but critical layer of the AI stack.

The conversation moves from the physics of heat to the politics of data centers, and ultimately to why thermal efficiency may become a quiet national security advantage.

We discuss:

• Why thermal management—not chips—may be the next bottleneck in the AI stack
• How Karman’s HPU replaces traditional chillers and dry coolers outside the data center
• How much additional compute Karman can unlock from the same power input
• Why CO₂ refrigerant de-risks data center builds from a regulatory standpoint
• How Karman thinks about reliability, uptime, and “aerospace-style” engineering
• Why data centers are becoming a national security issue
• Where Karman could expand beyond data centers—nuclear, geothermal, and beyond

…and much more.

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro
00:51 – Elara Nova ad
01:21 – Karman Industries mascot
02:28 – How would David describe himself?
05:01 – The original insight that became Karman Industries
06:31 – What do people underestimate about thermal management?
07:26 – The story behind the name
08:21 – How David and co-founder CJ Karla ended up working together
11:15 – Why is now the right time to be solving thermal management?
15:13 – Where does the heat go today?
16:31 – Energy usage for compute vs cooling
17:32 – Energy Savings with Karman's heat processing units (HPUs)
18:05 – Why C02?
20:48 – Replacing vs integration
21:37 – Regulatory side
24:42 – Karman's customer pipeline
26:33 – Reliability
28:59 – Engineering challenges
30:39 – What comes next for Karman
31:55 – Is thermal management a national security issue?
33:21 – David's thoughts on rerouting heat
36:23 – HPUs in space
37:58 – The company culture that allows for building relaiable solutions quickly
44:35 – Milestones for Karman in the next couple of years
47:00 – What does David do for fun?
 

• Show notes •

Karman’s website —https://www.karmanindustries.com/

David’s socials — https://x.com/7earse

Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com