The Gorilla Suit Experiment

In this conversation I speak with Dr. Zachary Porcu about his book, Journey to Reality: Sacramental Life in a Secular Age, and the challenge of explaining true Christian thinking to modern people. We discuss how modern assumptions about the world make it difficult to understand ideas like sacraments, participation, and the relationship between the spiritual and material. Dr. Porcu explains why he wrote the book and how reframing basic categories—what we mean by God, religion, and reality—is often necessary before theology can make sense.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/Qd9xENDzfRo 
Please review the Symbolic World podcast on Spotify or Apple podcasts. 

Dr. Zac’s website and book: https://zacharyporcu.com/
The Roots of Everything podcast (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/@TheRootsofEverything
Substack: https://zacharyporcu.substack.com/ 

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NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel Shchelin
The problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.
Presenter: Pavel Shchelin
Duration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.
Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.
Price: $180 USD, get the early bird discount of 15% off if you register by March 18th. 
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history 
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SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Buy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale through March 26th. Don't miss out! Hope to see you there: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:03 - Intro music
01:29 - Introduction
03:54 - Jargon
05:46 - Matter and spirituality
08:49 - Re-enchantment
13:10 - What you see
22:09 - The moral and physical laws
31:01 - Occult converts
36:39 - Supernatural experiences
40:54 - What do we do?
46:46 - Meditation
49:47 - On American religion
52:16 - The rational and the esoteric

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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/