No Hierarchy of Pain

A Note from James:

I’ve been in therapy for more than three decades.

Different therapists. Different kinds of therapy. Different crises.

And one question has always fascinated me: What is the therapist actually thinking while I’m sitting there talking?

Are they bored? Are they judging me? Are they secretly Googling me?

My guest today, Lori Gottlieb, knows the answer—because she’s both sides of the story.

She’s a psychotherapist, author of the bestselling book Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and the writer behind the popular advice column “Ask the Therapist.”

But what makes Lori unique is that she’s willing to pull back the curtain on therapy itself: what therapists think, what patients hide, and why people keep repeating the same patterns in relationships and life.

This episode originally aired several years ago, but the ideas still feel incredibly relevant—especially now, when conversations about mental health are everywhere.

So if you’ve ever wondered what’s really happening on the other side of the therapy couch, this conversation is for you.

Episode Description:

Psychotherapist and bestselling author Lori Gottlieb joins James to discuss what really happens inside therapy—and what both therapists and patients often misunderstand about the process.

Drawing from her book Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, Lori explains why therapy isn’t just about venting problems but about understanding the patterns that drive them.

James shares his own experiences as a long-time therapy patient, raising questions many people quietly wonder: Do therapists judge their patients? Do they get bored? Do they Google the people they treat?

Lori answers candidly, discussing the hidden dynamics of therapy, the emotional complexity therapists carry home with them, and why the most important conversations in therapy are often the ones people hesitate to bring up.

The conversation also explores relationships, secrets, childhood experiences, and why many people keep repeating the same life patterns—even when they know better.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why therapy isn’t just about discussing problems—it’s about understanding patterns
• The difference between content and process in relationships
• Why therapists rarely get bored—even when problems seem trivial
• The surprising ways therapists think about their patients
• Why the hardest topics in therapy often show up at the end of a session

Timestamped Chapters:

• [00:02:00] Lori Gottlieb on Therapy as “Editing Your Life Story”
• [00:03:00] Introduction to Lori Gottlieb
• [00:04:16] Inside the Book Maybe You Should Talk to Someone
• [00:05:02] Why Therapists Need Therapists
• [00:06:17] Are Therapists Bored Listening to Problems?
• [00:07:00] Content vs Process: The Real Work of Therapy
• [00:09:00] Why Pain Has No Hierarchy
• [00:10:23] James’s “Statistician” Theory of Therapy
• [00:11:00] Why Every Patient’s Story Is Unique
• [00:12:00] Finding Something Likable in Every Patient
• [00:12:45] The Hollywood Producer Patient
• [00:15:12] The Most “Boring” Therapy Patients
• [00:16:03] Labeling What’s Happening in a Conversation
• [00:18:00] Building Trust Without Oversharing
• [00:20:00] Judgment vs Protectiveness in Therapy
• [00:23:04] What Therapists Wish Patients Knew
• [00:24:11] Do Therapists Care What Patients Think of Them?
• [00:25:00] Different Styles of Therapy
• [00:29:00] Advice vs Understanding in Therapy
• [00:32:51] Do Therapists Ever Google Their Patients?
• [00:36:00] Why Patients Googling Therapists Can Backfire
• [00:38:00] The Awkward Beginning of Every Therapy Session
• [00:41:00] Working With a Patient Facing Terminal Cancer
• [00:44:00] The Emotional Impact of Therapy Work
• [00:46:00] Handling Suicidal Patients
• [00:47:30] When Therapy Ends
• [00:50:00] Why Saying Goodbye Matters in Therapy
• [00:53:00] “Doorknob Disclosures” — The Secrets Patients Reveal Last

Links and Resources:

• Check out Lori’s website and sign up for her newsletter at Lorigottlieb.com
• Ask the Therapist is the column Lori writes for the New York Times. You can submit a question for Lori here
• Read Lori’s book, “Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed.”
• Also check out Lori’s book from 2011, “Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough” (This book is not about settling! She says “I didn’t win the title battle with the publisher. And I still get letters from people who say the book has helped them.” A lot of it has to do with saving your marriage or setting standards. And she wrote a column about this once, too.)
• “Dear Therapist” is the column Lori wrote for six years for “The Atlantic.”
• Follow Lori on Twitter and Facebook

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