Responding to 'Woke' Criticism

Chuck Todd opens the episode with a blunt assessment: it's starting to feel like the beginning of the end of Donald Trump's presidency. From an open-ended war in Iran to a cratering stock market, Trump finds himself sinking deeper into what Chuck calls "presidential quicksand," with every show of strength only revealing more weakness. Chuck breaks down the staggering early costs of the Iran conflict — over 1,000 casualties and $6 billion spent in just one week — and asks the question no one in Washington seems willing to answer: does anyone actually have an exit strategy? On the economy, the latest jobs report is sending ominous signals. With slow growth, rising prices, and tariff uncertainty dominating the economic discourse, Chuck makes the case that the swing voters who put Trump back in the White House for his perceived economic expertise are the first ones who'll walk away when their wallets take the hit. Corporate America is also starting to find its backbone. From Anthropic refusing to strip safety guardrails to Netflix walking away from a bad deal, Chuck sees a telling pattern: companies are pushing back on a president who looks weak.

Legendary documentarian Ken Burns joins the Chuck Toddcast for a sweeping conversation about American history, the craft of telling it honestly, and why historical perspective has never mattered more than it does right now. Burns addresses head-on the criticism that his work is "woke," arguing that his documentaries have a perspective but it's not left versus right — he wants to call balls and strikes, and the truth shouldn't be something people fear. He offers a striking defense of nuance, noting that the Republican Party has been the most successful political party on earth and that his life's work has been about making films about both the U.S. and "us" — the complicated, contradictory people who built and continue to shape the country. Burns discusses his latest project on the American Revolution, which he insists he didn't intentionally time to the 250th anniversary, and reveals he's also working on a film about Reconstruction and potentially a documentary on the Cold War. He walks through his rigorous process for evaluating source material, the challenge of needing great actors to bring the founders to life, and how those founders were obsessively focused on virtue — creating something genuinely new in human history while writing a Constitution brilliant enough to endure centuries but unable to foresee Congress voluntarily abdicating its own power.

The conversation takes a fascinating philosophical turn as they explore the recurring patterns of American history: the manufacture of fear as a tool for authoritarians, the repeated failure of using government to force social change, and the way religion has been wielded as a cudgel by governments despite the founders being explicitly against a national religion. Burns offers a revealing window into his methodology, explaining that you need 25 to 30 years of distance before you can responsibly cover a historical subject, and that Trump's presidency has effectively constipated the scholarship on the Obama era because the two will be forever intertwined in history. He notes that views on Vietnam's legacy shifted vastly over decades, and that the passage of time is essential for triangulating toward truth — take historians for their knowledge, not always their perspective.

Finally, Chuck takes an illuminating detour into his "Time Machine" segment, tracing how communication technology has permanently reshaped the American presidency, from Alexander Graham Bell’s first phone call, to FDR's fireside chats, all the way to Trump’s constant social media use. Plus, Chuck answers listener questions touching subjects like the potential similarities between Pearl Harbor and Trump’s Iran strikes, NIL in college sports, what's really going on with Democrats’ reactions to politicians like John Fetterman straying from the party line, and James Talarico’s bid for Congress.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

7:00 Trump's presidency entering "presidential quicksand"

9:00 Iran war: an expensive political disaster

11:00 Trump has no strategic endgame in Iran

12:00 Why regime change in Iran won't work

15:00 Trump's market collapse & terrible jobs report

19:00 Swing voters abandoning Trump

21:00 Supreme Court striking down Trump's tariffs

23:00 Corporate America pushing back: Anthropic, Netflix, small businesses

32:00 Republican label becoming a liability

36:00 Montana: Daines retirement stuns state

39:00 Trump no longer an outsider, now seen as the establishment

43:00 Biden/Afghanistan parallel: one bad moment can permanently crater approval ratings

57:00 Ken Burns joins the Chuck ToddCast

58:45 Having historical perspective is incredibly important

1:00:30 American Revolution one of the most important events in history

1:01:00 Criticism of his documentary as being "woke"

1:02:15 The Republican party has been the most successful party on earth

1:04:00 Ken's documentaries have a perspective, but it's not left vs. right

1:07:00 The author's politics matter when consuming historical books

1:08:15 People want historical events to match their worldview

1:09:30 The process for evaluating source material for his documentaries

1:11:45 The founders were incredibly focused on virtue

1:13:15 The American experiment was something new in human history

1:15:30 Constitution is a brilliant document, didn't foresee congress abdicating

1:21:00 The manufacture of fear empowers authoritarians

1:25:30 Using government as instrument of social change

1:26:45 Prohibition was going to happen with or without the Spanish Flu pandemic

1:29:30 Forcing social change via government was never going to work well

1:31:30 We don't teach the history of religion out of fear

1:41:00 Founders were explicitly against a national religion

1:44:00 The story of America's progress & transformation is incredible

1:45:15 Most recent past events that Burns is comfortable covering?

1:47:15 Trump & Obama will be intertwined in history

1:48:30 Views on the legacy of Vietnam changed vastly over the decades

1:51:15 It's good to take historians for their knowledge, not always their perspective

1:52:15 Potentially producing a documentary about the Cold War

1:54:45 We've had 3 straight one-term presidents, never happened in 20th century

1:56:15 After the USSR dissolved, Republicans made Bill Clinton the enemy

1:58:45 Race is a part of telling every historical American story

2:00:00 Killer Angels is Ken's favorite historical fiction

2:03:15 How should we celebrate America 250?

2:05:15 Yellowstone covers many facets of the American experience

2:06:45 Simplifying complex history is the behavior of authoritarians

2:09:00 Thoroughly enjoy doing the hard work of making documentaries

2:12:00 Time Machine: how technology transformed the presidency

2:14:00 Lincoln's telegraph, FDR's fireside chats, and the evolution of presidential communication

2:24:00 How communication technology reshaped corporate leadership

2:26:00 Technology's role in weakening Congress

2:28:00 Ask Chuck: Iran vs. Pearl Harbor comparison

2:30:00 Trump's inane college football roundtable

2:46:00 Fetterman & Sinema: Democrats' narrowing ideology

2:51:00 Question about changing county borders

2:55:00 Talarico's congressional bid

2:57:00 World Baseball Classic

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