Post-Vatican II formation failures

Tonight‘s group consisted mostly of a monologue (out of necessity) about how it is that we are to read the Fathers. We have learned over these few years that one must read in a discerning and discriminating fashion, as well as prayerfully. There is great wisdom to be found within the ascetical writings, however, we must understand that the spiritual life and the personal struggle of each of the desert monks was unique. Furthermore, the desert itself was a laboratory like no other. In the deep solitude, the fathers saw with great clarity the workings of the human mind and heart as well as temptations that came from within and through demonic provocation. 

If there is one point that I wanted to make clear in pressing through this with the group is that our love of virtue, of God and our desire to be free of the passions can lead us not only into extremes of discipline but also into a kind of psychological violence. The sorrow over our own poverty and sin can lead us to repress certain parts of our personality and aspects of our life as human beings that are a source vitality and the capacity to love. We have often spoken about desire being at the heart of the spiritual life; we seek He  alone who can fill what is lacking within us.  Yet when the ascetic life is treated like a defense mechanism, we can project our struggles and responsibility for ourselves onto others or, in the intensity of the struggle, repress that which is essential to being fully human. This is not an ancient phenomenon. Those who engage in the spiritual battle today can be tempted in similar ways. Each generation is unique in regards to the nature of the battle but the same pitfalls remain.

It is for this reason that the ascetical life cannot be seen as an end in itself. It must begin with Christ, our relationship with him and our trust in his mercy and grace. Devoid of this relationship, the ascetic life can draw us into self focus that is destructive to us both emotionally and spiritually. Thus, our reading of the fathers places upon us a responsibility to be striving at the same time to draw close to Christ. Otherwise, the spiritual life can become a tragic distortion of the truth rather than the source of healing that it is meant to be. The current state of affairs within the life of the Church and the disconnect with this greater spiritual tradition points to such a distortion. When Christianity becomes a cultural phenomenon and whenever even its deepest and most beautiful forms of prayer become habitual and automatic, it becomes lifeless. Let us take heed then of this great responsibility and entrust ourselves to the grace of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. All things are possible with God, but without him there is  only darkness or a sad simulation of faith.

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Text of chat during the group:

00:13:17 Bob Čihák, AZ: P 230, K

00:23:29 Rachel: Is the connection instable for anyone else?

00:23:42 Rachel: unstable*

00:24:21 Monk Maximos: Replying to "unstable*"

Mine is fine

00:24:44 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Mine is fine" with 👍🏼

00:24:50 Bob Čihák, AZ: Reacted to "Mine is fine" with 👍🏼

00:25:38 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Mine is fine" with 👍🏼

00:27:02 Anthony: Would it be psychology healthier for people to be ordained or vowed religious as older people? St Paul suggests this, but the stories of saints romanticized young vocations (like St. Agnes).

00:27:55 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Would it be psycholo..." with 🤔

00:30:39 Sr. Charista Maria: Very important thoughts you are sharing Father. Holiness and Wholeness. Human/Spiritual integration.

00:31:30 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Very important thoug..." with ❤️‍🔥

00:32:10 Rachel: Reacted to "Mine is fine" with 🙏

00:33:19 Anthony: Right. Even St Symeon the New Theologian cracked mentally or emotionally as a young man.

00:35:58 Sr. Charista Maria: Pope Leo 13th spoke of the 100 years of satan which we have been in, hence such deep wound today and the need for longer formation for most.

00:38:48 Monk Maximos: The Servants of the Paraclete had a similar experience.

00:41:33 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Very important thoug..." with ❤️

00:44:42 Monk Maximos: Not only secular universities… some “catholic” ones are too.

00:44:54 Forrest Cavalier: Reacted to "Not only secular uni..." with 👍

00:45:57 Maureen Cunningham: We need the Holy Spirit an lots of joy

00:46:03 Rachel: I wonder if we are not still reeling from that but have only just begun to see the havoc modern psychology relied upon as if gospel truth has wrought upon civilization. The eye when not purified by a life in Christ views the world skewed through modern psychology no matter how good the intentions of those pursuing help though these means. How much though, do we see through this lens? How much doe it affect how we see ourselves, others and Christ Himself? How do we relate to each other?

00:46:18 Forrest Cavalier: Before going to secular college (CMU, late 1980s), I promised myself to always meet my Sunday obligation. I know without a doubt it saved my faith.

00:49:56 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Before going to secu..." with 🙏🏻

00:57:56 Kate : It seems we have to look at these stories not through a moralistic lens, otherwise we will end up thinking of this in terms or right vs wrong.  Rather, they we seeking healing of the soul and healing from the passions.

00:58:14 Sr. Charista Maria: I believe reading the desert Fathers and also being open to the graces that God is pouring out in our times. There is a great movement within the Church to encourage healing of the deeper heart, opening up the deep struggle or disorder, being so real with Jesus about the longing, and invite Jesus in to redeem, heal; Jesus then reveals the truth that it is really longing for union with Him (the God-sized void) underlying such disorders. Then the disorder becomes a portal to invite God in. Oh happy fault. and St. John of the Cross spirituality. Many are ashamed to invite God into such disordered longing, and they repress and thus close off the deeper heart to God.

00:58:54 Forrest Cavalier: Reacted to "It seems we have to ..." with 👍

01:02:10 Adam Paige: I see this in a positive light, that we should create spaces for men to be with one another in the church. I went to a men's retreat in Ontario in January and their homework for us was to start a men's group in our parishes if one doesn't already exist. At our last local men's group, we prayed Compline together and we've had Orthodox and Protestant men join us from time to time.

01:08:17 Maureen Cunningham: Monks had mothers I do not understand if Jesus was very close women when did all start

01:11:04 Anthony: In my opinion, some of the issues may be ethnic issues, not fully conformed to the Gospel. Norman's profoundly shaped the  Latin Catholic culture, but they had issues. The Greeks had issues (read the Alexiad...wow!). We all have probematic ethnic issues we are not fully recognizing.

01:13:50 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father

01:13:51 Catherine Opie: Thank you Fr. very thought provoking as always.

01:14:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂

01:14:38 Sheila Applegate: Reacted to In my opinion, some ... with "👍"

01:14:57 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.

01:15:25 Nypaver Clan: Please pray for the soul of Cindy Moran, a member of this group.