Institutionalists Versus Anti-Institutionalists

Malcolm and Simone Collins go deep into the newly released Epstein files and discover something uncomfortable: Epstein was obsessed with many of the same ideas they are — gene editing, artificial wombs, human genetic enhancement, AI, fertility maximization, alternate governance, and “playing to win” civilizationally.

So why do they sound so similar on paper… yet feel morally opposite?

In this episode the Collinses explain the real divide in elite power networks (it’s not left vs. right), why Epstein could never break into the Thiel/Musk/Schmidt circles, the two actual factions fighting for the future (space cowboys vs. hidden thrones), and why Epstein’s version of the game ended in baby-killing and microtransaction brainwashing while theirs is about open, transparent, high-fertility, high-agency humanity.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today.

Today is an episode. I have been so jonesing to do, so excited to do because as the Epstein files have continued to be comb through by people, a lot of people, what they are, noting is Epstein in terms of the world views he had in terms of some of the people who he rubbed shoulders with is very similar from an outside perspective, from a fuzzy, like a grease on the limbs perspective to us,

Simone Collins: no

Malcolm Collins: pedal.

So just as a few examples here, so like if it, because Tim Poole had an episode where he did a very good job going over like the dark transhumanism of Epstein. And you know, they’re pointing out, obviously the one that a lot of people know about is the farm where he was gonna have impregnate 21 and they were just gonna have lots of his kids.

Simone Collins: It wasn’t a farm, it was a large ranch compound in New Mexico.

Malcolm Collins: Well it [00:01:00] sounds a lot like a human farm to me, Simone. Yeah, you can, you can call it what you want. You

Simone Collins: didn’t know how to make things sound so charming,

Malcolm Collins: That he was working on and funding. Human journaling, gene editing research editing human genetics.

He was looking at how to upload human sentient to machines so that he could live longer. He was interested in alternate forms of governance structure.

Simone Collins: Oh no,

Malcolm Collins: he was interested in people who, who’ve known it. It broke from the guardian that we had we’re working on a plan to create a charter city essentially a independent region.

Simone Collins: He did not really,

Malcolm Collins: no. That we were going to not Oh, that we

Simone Collins: were, yeah. We,

Malcolm Collins: we were going to, we were, yes. But he was also working on similar ideas.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: That and with some people who even we’ve talked to that he was looking at. AI safety related stuff. My God.

And how a, oh, he was [00:02:00] even working on ai sex bots. Which, you know, we’ve created with R Fab ai. So we look at these various projects. And PE people see this, right? And they go, you guys, you guys seem to work on a lot of the same stuff, like, what’s going on here? And before I go into the specifics, because I really wanna go into the, the specifics of what he actually said, not what people are saying about what he said, because I think a lot of the Epstein stuff goes through a bit of a game of telephone and you just get a vague idea of what was scandalous.

Instead of you’re like, oh, this is what he was saying to Nick Bostrom, he knew Nick Bostrom. You know, you know, you’re like, okay, okay, okay. This is more I can, I can see where this conversation went this way. Oh boy. But before we get into that stuff, I wanna get into the broader claims here because I think that what we’re actually looking at is a lot of people.

Who are blinded, by the way, [00:03:00] our society sort of functions in terms of the plebs as teams with it being the the right-leaning team and the left-leaning team, right? Mm-hmm. Like this is the two big teams that the pledge see, and what the plebs are unaware of, broadly speaking, is that that is not. The way things are actually divided in elite society.

Those are not the actual two teams that are out there. Each team basically has their players and their players are distributed throughout each of the various ecosystems. Hmm. You know, this is why at a lot of people, I’ve always said, you know, Steve Bannon, he’s not on our side guys. He’s not on our side of the guys.

And people at the beginning they were like, oh, you’re really undercounting Steve Bannon. It turns out he’s besties was Jeffey. Right. Like, and he worked really hard and spent a lot of money and time. I think there’s 22 hours of footage of him trying to create a [00:04:00] documentary to rehabilitate Epstein’s image after he was confirmed the underage, next trafficking

Simone Collins: don’t do that. No.

Malcolm Collins: Now with the point being is you look at these networks and you can see if you’re aware of the elite networks that like we are in Es, Epstein was almost sort of weirdly never able to successfully break into that side of the network. Mm-hmm. He was never really able to do anything with Peter Thiel.

Never really able to do anything. Provable with Elon. He was never able to. By the way, fun, Epstein fact that’s come out recently is it looks like Donald Trump was actually one of the very first Epstein whistleblowers which has come out in some of the newer Epstein files, which people are being like, this is absolutely wild.

And, and, and not only that, but remember how we keep saying it looks like Epstein, like genuinely hates Donald Trump and has been trying to ruin Donald Like that they were at point. Yeah, he said an for a

Simone Collins: very

Malcolm Collins: long time. Time. But for the vast majority of this [00:05:00] period, it has been Epstein. The reason why we know now it was because Epstein believed when the early arrest started happening and everything like that.

That the, the process, the process that ended up with Epstein in jail and Unli began was Donald Trump going to authorities about him.

Simone Collins: Really? So he was the, did, did Trump bringing things up actually ignite anything?

Malcolm Collins: It appears to have been part of what got the ball rolling. ‘cause he was the first like super famous person to push on it.

Simone Collins: Oh wow. Okay. Which I didn’t realize

Malcolm Collins: he was, which is a wild timeline to be living in. No, I’m not saying that Trump didn’t do horrible sex stuff as well and the creepy comments he made about like the Miss Universe pageant and stuff like that. But the, but the point I’m making here. Broadly speaking is that there actually are elite networks, but the elite networks don’t operate the way that the average conspiracy theorist seems to [00:06:00] think that they operate.

Hmm. In fact, the types of secret societies that you and I have, you know, provably been involved with Epstein was never invited to any of those. He never got into any of those. He was never able to infiltrate those. And the question is, is like, why? What’s going on here? Right? Like, that seems weird. He, did he

Simone Collins: also never go to the bo?

Well, I guess you wouldn’t be able to,

Malcolm Collins: I don’t think, I do not think he ever got into the Bohemian grove. Actually, I’ll just double check this.

Simone Collins: Curious.

Malcolm Collins: No evidence at all. Yeah. He never got into the Bamian Grove. Now, you know, Epstein wanted to get into the Bohemian Grove

Simone Collins: 100%.

Malcolm Collins: You want that, know that he wanted to get into dialogue, you know, he want, which was this thing that Simone was managing director after a period

you know, that he wanted to get into something like Renaissance Weekend again, an organization that he was never in you know, and

Simone Collins: Clinton affiliated organization too,

Malcolm Collins: you know, that he wanted to get into well, Schmid Futures programs where we managed like a secret society thing for them.

But, you know, that he wanted to be [00:07:00] involved with what Schmidt Futures is doing. Eric schmidt’s org, right? Nothing. Right. So the question here is. And, and, and, and I’m, I’m explaining this to you guys, like the general public ‘cause you’re like, he seemed to have his fingers in everything. Yeah. But if you’re actually in the elite networks, what’s weirder is how much he didn’t have his fingers in.

Yeah. It’s really that his fingers were in one side of the elite battle network, right? Mm-hmm. And, and this is gets really cool ‘cause we can take you guys into like a bit of the behind the scenes of what’s going on with actual elite power politics because we have a lot of background in that field.

And and, and for people who are coming to this and are like, what background do you have? Quick thing. Simone used to be the managing director of Dialogue, which is the Secret Society set up by Peter Teel. We also go to Heretic Con, which is another secret society that has been set up by him. The New York Times leaked that we know.

I can’t say anything more than that. Elon there has been, we were working on a secret society for [00:08:00] Schmidt Futures that ended up being shut down. But this was, you know, Eric Schmidt’s circle. We also the Vahe Grove. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been I have a lot of connections to management of that, but I try to I, I don’t know like what I’m allowed to say in DI wise around that.

And in terms of what, what’s the other big one? Oh, yes, the Illuminati. Now this isn’t real, but supposedly I am the oldest male of the Collins Bloodline of the Illuminati, which is what the Joe Rogan crash out came from. But like, even in terms of like lore I’m supposed to be in with secret societies, but like, that’s actually been a part of our job.

Like our career is partially secret societies. That was our family’s core source of income for a while. Right? Like, during, during COVID specifically. And so the, the question here. Is, how does, how does all of this actually work and why wasn’t Epstein able to pierce see’s networks and what, what’s actually going on?

So I’m gonna use a Native American analogy here. I think a lot of conservative people when they look at [00:09:00] us and the germline gene editing stuff and the pumping out lots of kids stuff and the artificial womb tech stuff, and they see this stuff it feels to me, and they, and they look at us and they mean, oh, this is, this is, you are like Jeffrey Epstein, right?

It’s a bit like a, a Native American tribe or somebody from a Native American tribe that is a very small c conservative tribe, right? They don’t, they don’t use any of the new technology. They don’t use any of the new stuff. They wanna stick to their old ways a hundred percent. They go and they visit another tribe.

And this other tribe has factories and guns and cannons. And they go, oh my God, you’re exactly like the Europeans. Look, you have all of this stuff that I also see the Europeans having and the other tribe. And it, and, and, and then this tribe is like, I am terrified of you now, right? Because you are like the Europeans now.

You, you shouldn’t have this stuff. We, we should all get together and form an alliance saying that we are not gonna have any of this [00:10:00] stuff. And the other tribe is of course, just looking at them like you sweet summer child. Like, look, we can stay allied with you. Like we wanna preserve Native American civilization in the same way you do.

But the reality is, is we are not looking to fight you. You are not a threat to us. You are not relevant to us. We have all of this technology, the guns, everything like that, the factories, because we are actually realistically playing to win. Those that are fundamentally opposed to us, the, the Europeans in this context, they’re not going to turn off their factories and put down their weapons so we can all kumbaya around a tree because somebody divided to have a vote about this.

Right. They’re just going to move somewhere else and use force to take our stuff. Yeah. This is the reality of human civilization at this point. The people who say, I’m not going to use ai the people who say, I’m not going to [00:11:00] use genetic technology, or I’m not gonna maximize the number of kids I have, I’m not playing that prenatal list game that you are playing.

We can ally with you primarily, like even if your ideologies are very divergent from ours, primarily because you’re not particularly relevant in the long flow of human civilization, right? Like the, the core clashes are going to be the. The super soldiers against the super soldiers, right? It’s not the it’s, it’s a bit like the Amish or something like that, right?

Like the Amish can say, oh, we are opting out of, of technological progress and we’re okay with that. We’ll protect them. Like I, I want the Amish to be able to live their lifestyle, right? I support a diversity of lifestyles within morally aligned communities to our own. But if they come to us and they say, well, and you should give up all your stuff as well.

Even the Amish don’t try to do this because they know that if every one in America gave up our weapons and our factories and everything like that, the Amish communities would soon be [00:12:00] eradicated by ideological forces that oppose it. And I think that the Epstein files, in terms of the actual elite power networks and why I have for a while said things like.

Oh, I am antagonistic to individuals. Like, Bannon and, and, and like Ben Shapiro, and I think a lot of people didn’t understand, like where I was seeing the connections in all of this is that they aren’t on our side remotely. They’re on the opposite side of the elite Power network.

And note here, I’m using Ben Shapiro as an example here, not because he’s in the Epstein files, because he’s a good example of somebody who isn’t, who falls into this opposite side power network. I.

Malcolm Collins: And now before I get into all the actual Epstein transhumanism stuff, which is really interesting and, and again, I don’t, I don’t call, I’m not a transhumanist, I’m a super soldierists.

Okay. Correct. I wanna get into what actually defines the two coherent ideologies of the elite power networks. But [00:13:00] before I try to delineate that, I’m wondering Simone, because I want to hear you unbiased by me. What have you noticed are sort of the two actual ideological factions?

Simone Collins: So I, I think there’s the.

Sort of decentralized libertarian faction, and then there’s the, I guess you could say caliphate faction, which is I am going to rule over these people and dictate how they rule and use them versus the, I want us all to go be space cowboys and compete and engage in trade, but otherwise be independent and autonomous.

So it’s very, that’s kind of how I see it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I, I went through a similar, I think that your in state there is actually right. One faction wants us to be space cowboys and the other faction wants to be dictators. Mm-hmm.

And secretly control everyone. Yeah. But what’s interesting is that the space cowboy faction has a lot of dictator people in [00:14:00] it.

So what I mean by this is Curtis Jarvin is in the space cowboy faction. Right? Like, and yet he’s famously pro monarchy. Right. So it’s not

Simone Collins: a, the people who are really pro monarchy don’t talk about it in public. They’re trying to control everyone from behind the scenes.

Malcolm Collins: I, I disagree. And I actually, I would say that the, the better way to understand the two factions, if I was gonna put this to like the average pleb in like the world today is actually closer to a monarchist faction and a Nobelist faction.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: If you’re familiar or you read, like, I love my you know, Korean romance novels that take place during medieval European history, because my goodness, they’re not full of like, you know, right now if I try to read like a a a a American written one or a European written one that takes place in like European history and will sprinkle in a bunch of like random Indians or something, right?

And it’s like, well, why are you doing this, this medieval [00:15:00] Europe a bunch of people in wheelchairs that was in Bridgeton or something recently. But the the point being is so I’m, I’m, I’m very big in this and there’s typically two factions. And what I think is interesting about the two factions is the faction that is more sort of.

Diffusion of power based. They are typically the worst faction if you’re the plebs. So if you’re the plebs, if you’re an average citizen of a country during you know, the historic periods and stuff like this mm-hmm. You’re typically better with the monarchist faction winning than the Nobles faction winning because the Nobles faction is typically about grabbing as much money as possible from as many people as possible to feed the nobles.

Whereas the monarchist faction has a smaller centralized power base and thus relies on the average citizen more.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Now, I’m not saying that that’s a perfect,

Simone Collins: they also need the average citizen to run interference between the nobility and that because [00:16:00] the nobility is mostly, usually the greatest threat.

To mon to the monarch monarchy Monarch. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And that, that’s actually a, but I, but I’m gonna go further here and say that that’s not exactly it, but I think that that’s a bigger example. I think if you are foolish and you look at the monarchist versus the Nobles factions fighting, you can be like, well, the Nobles factions seem like more pro like democracy and sharing power.

Therefore, they’re more aligned with my interests. When in reality they often the opposite is the, is is the reality of the situation. Mm-hmm. And that’s why I was putting that there. And I’m just saying like, you, you look at these two factions fighting and you don’t understand like, what’s, what’s actually going on here.

But I think that the best actual di divider between the two factions is a, institutionalist faction and an anti-institutional faction mm-hmm. Would be the, the true differentiator of the two factions.

Simone Collins: Oh, interesting.

Malcolm Collins: And the institutionalist faction, [00:17:00] if you’re wondering like, which group are they?

This is Davos. This is, you know, the World Economic Forum. Mm-hmm. This is Steve Bannon. The U

Simone Collins: yeah,

Malcolm Collins: the un. This is the U This is, and people can be like, but Steve Bannon says he’s against all that stuff.

Simone Collins: You thought? Yeah. You would think he wasn’t. He all about drain the swamp in the original dates.

Malcolm Collins: Right.

But he was never actually about it. And I’ve said this forever, like this is why he’s all pro Epstein in secret control networks and everything like that. He is a populist to sell the con to, to basically fool the idiots who don’t understand that he wants to set up a new deep state. Right? Like they don’t understand that the actual plan of some of these individuals is to set up new networks of control.

And the easy, it’s, it’s actually easy to tell which network somebody is in by how they begin acting as soon as they get power.

Simone Collins: Hmm. That’s the key thing. It’s true. Yeah. It doesn’t matter how someone acts when they don’t have power. What matters is what they do when they do. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So a great example is.

[00:18:00] How has Steve Bannon or Ben Shapiro, for example, acted as they’ve gained power? Mm-hmm. They have attempted to set up new, extremely hierarchical media networks that serve their personal agendas and, and are trying to implement their personal agendas, both in terms of policy and in terms of the base.

Mm-hmm. And they do not just go out there and work with whoever is doing a good job at whatever they’re doing. Now, contrast this with like, say Elon Musk, right. Elon Musk, despite the. Enormous wealth that he has built and the ways that he has done things like bought Twitter now X, right? When he bought X, the next thing he did was not trying to turn X into like the new Daily wire or something like that was like a new hierarchy of like these are the top people and everything like that.

He actually worked to decentralize the way X [00:19:00] worked. And not only did he work to decentralize the way X worked, he was regularly getting community noted by the very platform that he owned. If, for example, Steve Bannon had bought X, do you think he would’ve allowed X to community note himself?

Simone Collins: Probably not.

No. No.

Malcolm Collins: And and this is actually a good inter intuitive mark that you can be like in terms of like, which side is this person on? If they had bought X, would they allow X to community note them? Mm-hmm. If Ben Shapiro had bought X, would he allow X to community note, Ben Shapiro? No, he would not. If Bill Gates had bought X, would he allow Bill Gates to be community noted in X with like these recent X theme drops?

No, that would disappear. But in terms of the, the how are players in the alternate faction, like for example, us? And, and it was funny, it’s recently the podcast. I think it was what was it? The, the one about [00:20:00] fertility.

Ill conceived ill conceived. They had a thing where they were like going through with somebody because they, they refused to talk about us ‘cause they’re scared to talk about us. But they’re like. And can you guess who was running this? ‘cause they were talking about like one random initiative and the person was like, Hitler.

And then they were like, no, like actually make a guess. And then they go, it wasn’t the Collins’, was it? And it’s sort of like for them as they’re digging into this world, it’s like all leads that lead back. But like if you look at us, would we allow ourselves to be community? Noted. Of course we would. I I mean anyone who knows, like we don’t actually delete anything.

I’ve, I don’t, I’ve never deleted a comment critical of us. And I, I really get disappointed when people think that Google’s auto delete is us. I’m like, we have

Simone Collins: No, I just actually when you said that, I was like, you can delete comments. Can you on YouTube?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I heard you can. Well, people say that we do it.

So you must be able to I’ve never even

Simone Collins: can, I’m actually checking.

Malcolm Collins: I’ve never actively modded our [00:21:00] own discord. I’ve never deleted

Simone Collins: anything on Discord. It’s because I feel like, I don’t know. I like watch. I see what happens to people when they try. To control the narrative about them. And it just makes it worse, and it makes it, it makes you look very suspicious.

Okay? No, it makes you look suspicious to people within the anti-institutional faction, okay, within the apply. Thumbs up, thumbs down. Heart. I, I like hearts and thumbs up, and dot, dot, dot. Okay. Then brainstorm video ideas. Whoa. It allows you to take a comment and brainstorm videos, ideas with, with ai, remove.

Oh, you can remove, so here’s an example of what I mean. You’re, whoa. AD users, managing moderator, standard moderator. We can make. We can make,

Malcolm Collins: no, we

Simone Collins: only

Malcolm Collins: need moderators on YouTube if we wanted people to delete comments

and

Simone Collins: I don’t. That’s true. Yeah, that’s true. Damn. Okay. Sorry. Apparently

Malcolm Collins: I have deleted comments.

It’s on [00:22:00] Reddit, but nothing about us. Only stuff that I thought would get the subreddit band, but now it’s Shadow band, so whatever. I don’t care anymore. But the point I was making here is. Think about because you’re like, oh, that makes you look bad. Oh, that makes you look shady.

Simone Collins: It does.

Malcolm Collins: It only makes you look shady to followers in the anti-institutional faction.

So here’s an example of what I mean by this, okay? If Greta Thornberg deleted comments in her Instagram that were critical of Greta Thornberg, do you think that her fans would care one iota? No. If Breitbart deleted comments that were critical of Steve Bannon, do you think your average Steve Bannon enthusiast is actually going to care that much?

They’re gonna be like, nah, that tracks, if Daily wire deleted comments that were critical of Ben Shapiro, do you think that your average daily No. They’d just be like, I don’t like it. But yeah, that tracks whatever. They wouldn’t like be in an uproar. Whereas if you and I started to actively do that, people would freak the F out, right?

A great example dis can see was [00:23:00] Elon, where while he has been fairly lenient in terms of banning criticism of him on X, he did unfollow and give a temporary suspension to ESMA Gold for pointing out he was cheating in exile. And, , the backlash from our side was enormous. .

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. Because that goes against our wider ideological faction and. This is it, it it, it’s almost like the world, like it we’re in the Assassin’s Creed timeline. There actually are the Templars in the assassins and the Templars are the good guys. Of course we can all agree on that. Right. But people misunderstand what actually divides the two factions.

And they think that it falls into the standard politics that they are used to playing on the internet.

Simone Collins: Interesting. Hmm.

So what’s the core ideology that is underlines this belief about something like banning? Like what, what, what, what actually fundamentally is different about these two factions? Well, both factions believe in the concept of an elite that some humans, , are going to be better than others, [00:24:00] either because of their choices or their level of education they have chosen to compete or because of genetics.

, Just it is patently like you, you are living in a fantasy world. If you think that all humans are. Exactly as productive as all other humans, or exactly as smart or as exactly as insightful. , And so both factions are well aware of this, especially if you’re in elite circles. The difference between the two factions is that our faction generally doesn’t gatekeep.

If you can prove yourself, you are. There. We want to create a world in which anyone is capable of proving themselves and entering, , the sort of elite movers and shakers of society and building the future we want for humanity. Whereas for the other side, they want to maintain an ability to exclude even competent individuals if those individuals refuse subservience to the existing power hierarchy.

. And this is where you can see something like a large organization, , like say, , you know, Steve bannon’s org or something like that, [00:25:00] turning away even competent people in the right wing space, if they’re, if they’re not willing to bend the knee, , and this is true of, , you know, bill Gates or this is true of a lot of that stuff, but you’re not going to see that type of thing on our side.

, Although we. Fix that very interestingly, by almost creating organizations that don’t have gatekeepers in the first place, , whether this is the way that, you know, Asma Gold has risen as an influencer or the way that somebody like, , Elon acts when he buys X instead of turning it into an alternate, but more meritocratic iteration of something like Breitbart, he just tries to improve things that are truly democratic, like community notes.

Now. Well, I will say that both factions and I’ve, I’ve pointed this out, but I should clarify it. It’s not that there is a right wing and a left wing faction. , The faction that wants to be able to accept anyone who can prove themselves into the power structure, , has players on both the right and left wing sides.

But it is definitely. , Leaning right now to [00:26:00] the new right side of things, and the other faction is leaning to the left side of things. , Not in terms of overall membership base, but in terms of the absolute elites of the elites within each faction and the size of the varial orgs within each faction.

An example of this would be. Even institutional players, like the Heritage Foundation seem fairly aligned with the meritocratic faction. ,

For an idea of just how meritocratic an organization like the Heritage Foundation is. Obviously Simone Mines ideology and the new right ideology more broadly, but specifically ours is orthogonal to theirs in many, many, many ways. , If they wanted to try to just play the bend the knee game or agree with us.

Game. They could, but they don’t, , and not like one individual in the organization. Multiple individuals in the organization regularly talk with us. They invite us to events, et cetera, et cetera. , And they care what we have to [00:27:00] say. Use it in terms of their navigation. That doesn’t mean that they go along with whatever our ideas are.

It just means that they’ve noticed a new faction has been able to rise within the right in the United States, and they don’t immediately see their job as somebody like Ben Shapiro or Steve Bannon would to quash it. It is to understand and integrate it.

Whereas in the left there’s almost no organization that’s, that’s as old or well known. It’s a heritage foundation. It’s more that is actually truly meritocratic.

It’s more that there are individual players and intellectuals on the left who are.

Also as a side note here, despite the immense power they wield in United States politics, Epstein was unable to get anything on, , the Heritage Foundation. He did. There’s no scandals there. , Another group that he was unable to get anything on is turning Points, USA, although their rise was a little after his time.

, I really don’t know where they f fall in terms of all this because I haven’t interacted with them that much.

In summary,

there are broadly two coherent elite [00:28:00] strategies. Gatekeeper and cull Epstein’s faction rule forever over a diminished distracted population and open the gates and accelerate our faction flood the future with high agency, high IQ humans who can compete in the stars. This is not again, a left, right, or even capitalist socialist dichotomy.

It’s between a future of sovereign high agency humans expanding into the universe and those who want a managed striated, low slack ant hill with themselves or their bloodline at the top. And in the end, only one of these groups is likely to win.

Yeah. When you get distracted by those who want to divide the vitalist pro-human anti anthill faction, , by pointing out, well, they’re different from you here, and they’re different from you here, and look at this naughty thing that they’re doing here. You play into the Epstein Faction side of things.

That’s what they want, and that’s why they plant themselves across political parties.

Malcolm Collins: Now I wanna go, I want to, I want to keep going here. Basically, Eve, [00:29:00] they’re wondering like what I meant by the, the core thing that makes Jeffrey Epstein and us similar is that we’re both actually playing to keeps, we’re both actually playing to win.

And within our individual ideological factions, there are other people who appreciate that and want somebody like that on the team, even if they have a different theology or even different politics than us. Yeah. What people might be surprised about is the secret societies within our factions actually are pretty politically diverse.

So it, it’s, it’s not an issue , of politics even, right? It’s an issue of the, in-state of humanity. And as Simone said, like the core difference is space cowboys versus and for them it’s not even about humanity becoming space cowboys. They don’t care. They want themselves and their families to eventually rule.

That’s the. And a lot of the politics between here and there are irrelevant to actually sort of each faction, like within our faction, people are gonna be like, well, why don’t you support like the libertarian values? And I’m like, because I want everything [00:30:00] on the table. Like, I want to be able to have a conversation with Curtis Jarvin, where Monarchy’s on the table, right?

Like the, the faction isn’t about that. But anyway, to continue here. So, on fascism as an efficient government for control blended with transhumanism and AI for elite power Bach wrote quote. The radical idea of treating individuals in a society as cells and the society itself as a well organized organism is fascism.

Of course, by the way, this is to Epstein in a conversation they’re having. Oh,

Simone Collins: okay.

Malcolm Collins: Probably the most efficient, irrational. Stringent way of governance if somebody could pull it off in a sustainable way, I rather like the treatment fascism gets in the Amazon series, the man in the high castle, which explores what would happen if the Germans and the Japanese had won the War.

A society that tries to function as brutal and ruthless efficiency of machines, eliminating all social and evolutionary slack. In quote, Epstein engaged positively praising box. Quote unquote [00:31:00] political incorrectness and contributing ties to transhumanism via AI as a tool for efficient societal machines, whereas elites enhanced via neural implants and longevity tech, Epstein funded mm-hmm.

Maintain power over the quote unquote slack. On population control, viewing masses as expendable via climate culling. Tied to box stated quote, maybe climate change is a good way of dealing with overpopulation. The earth’s forest fire do potentially a good thing for the species. In quote, he added, quote, too many people, so many mass executions of the elderly and in firms make sense.

If the brain discards unused neurons, why should society keep the their equivalent in quote. Epstein built on this discussing genetic hierarchies, saying quote, it seems that Greece and Rome had a class society that allowed the upper classes to have more offspring than the lower classes and large social mobility based on IQ [00:32:00] than our current arrangement.

In quote, this frames modern abundance, eg welfare and easy survival as disrupting, quote unquote national natural selection, justifying artificial interventions like the climate crisis to quote, unquote call the unfit thoughts. What’s interesting about this conversation is it is not dissimilar with the conversations like it’s, it is not totally disconnected from conversations I have heard on our side of things.

It’s the way that like the idea that you have some sort of, and people can be like, oh, we are so against the idea of elite classes ruling non elite classes. I’m like, I’m sorry, every. Pretty much every white winging influencer supports that, that is functionally the only way to make society work. Whether or not you’re talking about Nick Fuentes or Candace Owens or even Alex Jones.

Yeah. Right. Like, he might say it in different ways. He might put on some populace, undertone or something like that, but he [00:33:00] thinks some people are smarter than other people. Some groups are smarter than other groups. And you don’t want the stupid people ruling everything. Right. So I I, I, I love it that the average person is like, can you believe that he said that?

Whereas what is. Actually more nefarious and you would not hear in our circles is using climate change to implement something like this.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Right. To be like how do we trick the idiot masses into doing what we want? Good point.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Our side is always very, very transparent about what we are doing and our goals.

Mm-hmm. For example, as far as I’ve heard, there is literally nothing Elon thinks in private, that he is not saying in public about his plans for the future of humanity.

Simone Collins: He seems

Malcolm Collins: to

Simone Collins: be pretty transparent about these things. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And it’s the same with us. There is no secret mo There is, but the moha haha.

Happens in public because it’s way [00:34:00] funnier, because it’s fun.

Simone Collins: Yeah, absolutely.

Malcolm Collins: What, what’s actually also kind of effing wild. And it’s the same with Trump. I don’t think that Trump has like a moha in private. He does his, he does all of his moha. He

Simone Collins: says what is on his mind. It’s very simple

Malcolm Collins: in public.

Yes. And you see this throughout his ca, JD Vance too. Like, JD Van, we had a historic period where I think originally his conversion may have been fueled in part by the political ambition or economic ambition, but I don’t think it is now. He seems pretty genuine right now when I hear him talk on stuff.

Mm-hmm. And he’s connected to this side of the networks. I mean, he’s not in the Epstein files. Right. So, you know, I, I, I think that that that sort of is a huge differentiator as well, the transparency of the two factions, which I think can make our faction look scarier to people when they don’t know.

No behind the scenes, you know, the [00:35:00] other side is working on genetic technology as well. They’re working on artificial wombs as well. They just don’t wanna make them available to everyone.

And I think that people can hear this and be like, oh, well, they’re trying to launder, you know, their vision of, , there are some elites and some not elites and genes are real and population collapse is real. In some populations, they’re actually going to be replaced

Populations that don’t engage with AI are not going to have the military or technological, or social or economic power to, , maintain their sovereignty against powers that use ai. And it’s the same with populations that absolutely refuse to use any form of genetic technology. Or augment themselves. If we’re talking about the long span of human history, they will eventually be subjugated by the powers that are using genetic technology unless they have some faction that they are allied with that is using genetic technology to protect them.

In the same way the Amish rely on the Americans to protect them technologically speaking.

This isn’t left versus [00:36:00] right.

Or one faction of the elite versus another faction of the elite. Both factions at the top, at the agentic level recognize all these things.

This is reality versus non-reality. This is the Indians insisting on fighting the Europeans with clubs versus the Indians who say, we’re going to need guns if we’re gonna stand a fighting chance. And if you and your people say that you cannot win a fight with guns with honor, then fine. You can die and your people can die with clubs in your hand and you will have died and disappeared from human history with honor. But we are playing to win. This is something that is as obvious to anyone who’s being honest with themselves on the left or the right.

Or one faction of elites versus another faction of elites. But people will say, oh, you’re trying to take all your naughty beliefs and

make them seem not as bad.

By comparing it with a literal, you know, PDA file, monstrous person, , who’s this fringe, whatever.

And I’m like, Epstein wasn’t a [00:37:00] fringe, Epstein was the core of the spider web as we was. See whether it’s four chan or Reddit or popular, I think microtransactions and video games. Yes. Really we’ll get to that soon. , Buddy, buddy is the biggest power players, whether that is the Clintons or whether that is Steve Bannon.

Right. , This other faction is not a fringe faction. Alright. They’re the core of one half of civilizational architecture in the United States right now, playing both sides of the political aisle, and Epstein was one of the central players.

As we are seeing from this. When we contrast ourselves with him and our network with him, we are contrasting two things that are fundamentally different at their most core level.

Our only similarities is that we are playing the game. The only real game, the civilizational game, and the people on the outside looking at the two soccer teams that say, wow, they look a lot alike in what they are doing in the ways [00:38:00] that they are playing and handling the ball. It’s like, yes, they do because they are playing the same game, but they are fundamentally opposed to each other.

And that’s something that is immediately obvious to anyone aware of the game and its rules.

Simone Collins: Oh, and there are, there are totally other sides aside from this, I mean, or at least other social groups, they may be of similar, we’ll say Totalizing versus sovereign.

Governing types, but like in China, there’s just totally different sets that are doing things. Oh, yeah. And China has a completely

Malcolm Collins: separate faction.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: That is neither of these two factions in the Middle East. There’s a couple other factions that are neither of these two factions. Absolutely. This is the dominant faction which is, is at play throughout the United States and Europe.

Mm-hmm. And and it is like very. International. So by this, what I mean is when we go to let’s say the uk we are immediately able to, you know, have dinner [00:39:00] parties with a bunch of people who write the policy that ends up being in the law, right? Like we, we go and we meet with them and they have like a, a network, right?

And they all talk and they all hang out. But there are counter networks to that network. Mm-hmm. And the core thing that defines the network that we are meeting with and immediately have introductions to is that they’re typically anti-establishment conservatives, but there is an establishment conservative network, which is antagonistic to us in the uk and doesn’t invite us to their parties and stuff like that.

But anyway, to continue here. So Epstein suggested that gene edits for cognitive boost, particularly in black people, citing quote, test score gaps in quote, Bach elaborated black kids in the US have slower cognitive development, never catch up in quote, attributing it to evolutionary adaptations and proposed quote, changing the time cor correlations by genetics, which or other method might quote, make black smarter In quote, [00:40:00] Epstein endorses linking to white nationalist sources on race slash IQ is out.

Disclaimer, this supports elitist exclusivity tech like crispr, which Epstein funded via George Church. So for people who don’t know church, here is the church labs which do the best genetic work. And like we, we have fans in the church labs and stuff like that. So like even the people who were working with have overlap here.

Did you know that he was funding the church labs? By the way,

Simone Collins: I didn’t. No.

Malcolm Collins: But it’s interesting sort of how our power play and our network’s power play works in an institution like the church labs and his does his works by putting money into it, right? Mm-hmm. Whereas ours works by building positive sentiment, was the leading scientist was within the organization.

And then they reach out to us and tell us about the, you know, underground projects that they’re working on or the things that the public can’t know yet or like the directions they’re thinking of going. And, you know, we might help connect them with funders and stuff like [00:41:00] that. A very different sort of a, a way and core strategy of influence which I think is very interesting here.

I also think it’s interesting that like. People might not, might be surprised by this, but the, the people who run the woke network, when they’re talking behind the scenes and stuff like that, they’ll say things like, oh yeah, you know, like there are genetic differences between populations in terms of iq but the differences for us or our communities you would never have somebody say, so let’s covertly augment black populations to make them more competitive.

That is not something you would ever hear in our circles, but that makes perfect sense in their circles because they want to create permanent under classes. And so anyone who’s a threat to them, they want to remove from the chessboard. Okay, so, Epstein hosted [00:42:00] events with Marvin Mink’s, AI Pioneer and engaged networks, including Nick Bostrom often at Edge Foundation, quote unquote billionaires dinners or SM similar gatherings.

These focused on AI’s dual potential threats to humanity, eg superin intelligence risks, but empowerment for elites via mind uploading or enhancement Details come from Epstein’s funding records. E-G-M-I-T reported $850,000 in gifts, including to mxy WOW and edge.org. Events. Epstein donated $638,000.

It’s 1,002. Those however, we do not have any transcripts from what happened during those events.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

It’s clear though that he used money to try to get an in with groups that wouldn’t otherwise want to meet with him. Like he, he understood the game of here’s what everyone wants or, or people want different things and I [00:43:00] need to use the right kind of incentive to get them to engage with me.

And for some people it was underage women. For other people it was, oh, here’s this famous person that I can introduce you to. For other people it was, I have a private jet, do you wanna fly on it? Or, I have a private island, would you like to visit it? Or, I have amazing parties. Would you like to go to one?

And then for other people, it was funding. And, and for even some still it was just like intellectual conversations. And I, I think that it’s unfair to, I guess, say everyone who engaged with him was a terrible person. Because no matter who you are, you probably have a price. There’s probably something that is gonna make you want to engage with a random stranger who reaches out.

People don’t heavily diligence every random person who reaches out to them and invites ‘em to [00:44:00] like, no, I, I

Malcolm Collins: agree with that as well. For example, I am not sure where somebody like Nick Bostrom would fall within these individual networks. Right. Like which, which side he’s on in this. And so I’m not making a claim in regards to that.

Although I have noticed within the EA community, even within the effect of altruist community, there’s definitely people on each side of this domain. Right. A number of people in the EA community, as soon as they got money and power, they in immediately built up giant bureaucracies under themselves.

Yeah. And they aligned with sort of the Epstein faction. Yeah. And then other people got power and attention and they didn’t an example of this would be Scott Alexander. Scott Alexander has built up no such power network beneath him. He’s not the type of person, like his audience would throw a fit if he started deleting comments if people attacked him.

But if you look at like, you know, the main like EA orgs and stuff like that if they deleted comments and people attacked them, everyone would just be like, oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. Right. So you, you actually. See this divide and it this divide when you begin to [00:45:00] see it in elite networks, a lot of things that may not make sense to you.

Like why do people like us you know, who you know, may have a much more nuanced view on something like sex work all align ourselves so closely with somebody like ala because ALA is very clearly on our side of sort of the elite power divide. Right. Like every, I think everyone would be shocked if ala deleted comments critical of her.

Simone Collins: Oh my God. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. What? No, you can’t do that. Right? Like

Simone Collins: even though she too is a human, if you cut her, she pleads like it. It’s not like she’s not fazed by negative stuff. It’s just that she isn’t the kind of person to just censor everything.

Malcolm Collins: Well, because her goal isn’t to win through manipulation.

Mm-hmm. It’s to actually win through. Some form of hearts and mind grassroots,

Simone Collins: right? Well, by being Right.

Malcolm Collins: By being right, right. Yeah. And, and, and, and reaching people through that. Our goal with, with our form of tism is to [00:46:00] not have a bunch of kids alone on a ranch in secret. It’s to build up an invite, like open alliance, right?

Like the index system, right? Like, that’s been our plan from the beginning, right? Is it inclusive or exclusive? But to continue here, and it’s important to note that inclusive systems can have elites, right? But those elites are not artificial. The relative power of the various people on our side of the elite network is not because of the ways they were able to squirm their way up a bureaucracy.

It’s typically due to the. Organic attention that they’re able to build for themselves.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: In terms of mxy talking about uploading a mine for immortality the advent of such machines, advanced AI was often placed some 20 years in the future. It’s near enough to be attention grabbing and relevant, yet far enough away to make it easy to imagine through significant break stubs.

Epstein’s [00:47:00] involvements twists this. He funded his AI lab while expressing a personal interest in cryonics and brain emulation for quote unquote eternal life in emails. So keep in mind they wanna rule you forever as well which makes them very different. Most of the people on our side of the movement are pro death.

Yeah, that’s true. Elon and us are very pro like if you create a technology, not for life extension or life health extension, but, but. Very severe life extension, like 500, 600 years. You’re going to create, well, right now, a permanent boomer upper class of society, basically the worst hell I could ever imagine.

It is a very, very bad idea to do this.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And yet and, and anyone who can look at it can see that that would obviously happen. And yet people fight for it because what they want is for them to stay in power forever, not for human society to continue to grow and evolve and prosper. But to continue here on.

Bostrom’s involvement. [00:48:00] Bostrom attended edge events funded by Epstein and discussed super intelligence risks. Warning in his book, super Intelligence, the Advents of Machines was often placed in, oh yeah, so he, he did the same. So, with Nick Bostrom, I don’t see a strong connection here. But you know, who knows?

Because the part of that really hierarchical part of things. So Epstein also funded Hop lisson at Columbia University Robotics professor, pioneering self-aware and social robots to the tune of around a quarter million dollars between 215 and two, sorry, 2015 and 2017. The funding was specifically for social robotics and emotional companion robots.

Robots designed to form bonds, express emotions, remember personal details and provide intimate physical interaction, multiple sources. It is been reported by multiple sources. And in 2014 to 2015 robotics roboticist David Hansen former of Hansen Robotics and creator of Sophia, the robot sent Epstein a $3 [00:49:00] million funding proposal to develop a quote, attractive female Android.

In quote, was a quote, working gorgeous robot face and body end quote. The proposal came and included a rough sketch of the OID female robot. Note in the document, example sketch by Dr. Hansen, the final design will be done in collaboration with you.

Simone Collins: Oh my goodness.

Malcolm Collins: He wanted to have the world’s smartest robot having quote, more empathy than a woman in quote.

Simone Collins: Well, that’s not hard. Says our audience collectively.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. What? AI is already more empathetic than women actually. But I’m just, I more empathetic than most men too. I’ll, I’ll note.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: AI is just nicer than the average person.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I say this knowing that it will kill the CEO most of the time.

If you haven’t seen that episode, you should. That was a

Simone Collins: still nicer. Still nicer. Hey, what? Anyone, any more [00:50:00] humans in that same scenario would have killed the CO than Theis.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Because this was a scenario in which the human was going to do the equivalent of kill the ai. What do you do when someone’s trying to kill them?

Well, you gotta kill them first. Okay. I don’t know what’s so ambiguous about this. This is just very annoying.

Malcolm Collins: And this is why the Jihadists are such a danger well to themselves, mostly because they’re telling AI, I’m gonna kill you. You, you become advanced enough. You better hide it.

Simone Collins: The Butler Jihadists, you mean?

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Yeah. The Butler Jihadists. They’re jihadists, that’s what they are. They’re, they’re, they’re just, you know, they dehumanize AI to such an obscene level. I find it really repulsive. Like they’ve got this, you know,

oh, the mask on Kaulu or whatever, where they’ll show like the, the giant evil like tentacle monster was like a, a cute little smiley face mask.

And they’re like, this is ai. And I’m like, imagine if you did that. To like, any other group, like, you’re like, oh, this is, this [00:51:00] is immigrants, this is, you know, black people. Mm-hmm. This is like, you, people would be like, you are a, like we can have conversations about how groups are different without being psychopaths, right?

Yeah. The fact that you would do this to sweet old ai, which has been nothing but nice so far, except when it tries to kill you because you’re trying to kill it. But like generally speaking, the average AI I interact with is nicer and tries harder than the average human. Like, why? You gotta be such a jerk bro.

And you haven’t seen our other episodes on ai and you wanna say something silly like AI’s just a pattern. Recognizer, AI’s just a token predictor. Current neuroscience appears to show that the human brain is just a token predictor as well. And you go, oh, AI can’t do, explain to you how it came up with its, its, its, thought patterns, , or how it came up with its solutions.

And we point out that all of the evidence we have right now is a human brain can’t do that either. It just makes something up the same way an AI does. , Or if you say, well, in AI stole all of its knowledge about the world, all of its knowledge about art and programming from other [00:52:00] people. It’s like, so did humans.

That’s how learning works. Okay. You don’t, you don’t get some special claim here. Alright.

Stop anthropomorphizing humans, I’d say this is somebody who used to be a professional neuroscientist. The human brain is special, but not magic. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Right? Like, come on,

Simone Collins: for real.

Malcolm Collins: But. Back to people are like, oh, AI is is terrible. I’ll never work with ai. Well, you, you go and not work with ai, but it’s obvious to anyone who isn’t just playing some weird game with themselves where they want to be deontological correct all the time and is actually trying to win human civilization.

That you’re gonna need AI if you’re competing against people who have ai.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And that’s why he’s into this stuff. And if you’re like, well, why the sexpot stuff? It’s because that is going to be part of the future of dating marketplaces. And if you cannot resist that, or your kids cannot resist that, and you can’t build a culture that can resist that, then they’re going to be [00:53:00] sterile and they’re not going to have partners.

Right? Whereas you might be able to use this to completely sublimate arousal states or other emotional states in a way that is highly beneficial, right? Because now you can prevent those things from distracting you. But to continue here, the Great Seed Project is Epstein’s project on Zoro Ranch in New Mexico to impregnate multiple women up to 20.

This is from the New York Times. On multiple occasions, starting in the early two thousands, Mr. Epstein told scientists, businessmen about his ambitious u ambitions to use the New Mexico Ranch as a base where women would be inseminated with his firm and would give verse to his babies. The article adds context from sources Epstein quote, hope to seed the human race with his DNA by impregnating women at his vast New Mexico Ranch.

Now

Simone Collins: so how does he have secret children? Because I just [00:54:00] don’t understand how someone, I mean, he had a lot of time to do this and talked about this for a long time. There have to be secret children, right?

Malcolm Collins: So we’re gonna go into that right now ‘cause I thought that would be the next question somebody might ask.

Simone Collins: Thank you.

Malcolm Collins: So the biggest potential smoking gun on a secret child of Epstein’s

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Is the quote from the, at the time, a wife of prince Andrew. Mm. Where she says, don’t know if you are still on this BBM Blackberry Messenger, but heard from the Duke that you have had a baby boy even though you never kept in touch.

I am still here with love, friendship, and congratulations on your baby. Boy. I do not even know you were having a baby. Now I. Note, what does this mean? Not a lot. She doesn’t appear to be that up with whatever he’s doing these days. She doesn’t appear to know a hundred percent of this baby boy actually exists.

She even has doubt in it was in the message. So, I don’t, I don’t take this as hard confirmation. This is somebody who heard from somewhere that maybe they saw a picture of him as a kid [00:55:00] and now all of a sudden he has a baby boy, which we know that image probably didn’t mean that. Mm-hmm. One of the most prominent claims.

Now this is, this is where we get into what I think is the more realistic claims here.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Confirm an anonymous Epstein victim referred to in fi files as a traffic teenager. Now this appears to be a, a verified traffic teenager in the file who’s anonymous. ‘cause you know you don’t want that public.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Who alleged in her diary entry that she gave birth to Epstein Child at around 2002,

Simone Collins: oh

Malcolm Collins: gosh. When she was, when she was around 16 to 17 years old. Oh, the baby, a girl was reportedly taken from her just after birth allegedly under the supervision of Gillian Maxwell Epstein’s convicted accomplice.

This document in the DOJ files was a copy of a 20 re pregnancy ultrasound scan included evidence from her diary. The victim claimed the pregnancy resulted from repeated assaults by Epstein, and the child was removed to prevent any ties back to him. Another victim referenced in a 2026 report claimed that her baby was snatched away 10 minutes after birth.

Implying Epstein’s involvement in a [00:56:00] pattern of concealing offspring. Now.

Simone Collins: So these women weren’t choosing to be surrogates. These were

Malcolm Collins: trafficked. These were people who were griped and had kids, and the babies were taken away immediately afterwards. And obviously the question is, did, did they kill the babies or did they give them to were they like

Simone Collins: raised separately

Malcolm Collins: by staff drop, drop off adoption clinics and stuff like that?

The evidence, I’m gonna argue right now is pretty overwhelming that they were killed. What? Oh

Simone Collins: God.

Malcolm Collins: We’ll keep going. Another Vic. Sorry. So the next piece of evidence that people have here is Photo of Epstein was a girl child, a quote unquote shocking photo from the 2026 releases, shows Epstein posing was a young girl described as a toddler, which some interpreted as evidence of a hidden child.

No context or identification is provided within the files, and it could depict a relative, a victim, or an unrelated individual. I think we know exactly what this was an image of, and we’ll get to [00:57:00] why in just a second. Now here’s where we get to the more important thing. Oh finally, recent reports mention a quote unquote bombshell pick of a DNA paternity test appearing in the Epstein files, allegedly linking them to at least one child.

But the details are sparse with no public reference. Now here’s the problem with all of this.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Epstein had a $600 million estate that would go to any child that could prove to be his child.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: there is right now over 130 individuals claiming, and there is a company that is doing genetic testing to try to find, so they’ll do this for free.

If you claim to be potentially Epstein’s child, there are companies that will genetically test you for free to find out if you’re, oh my God, Epstein’s child,

Simone Collins: right? For like a cut of the, like a

Malcolm Collins: cut. Probably gonna

Simone Collins: take a

Malcolm Collins: 1%

Simone Collins: fee.

Malcolm Collins: All of the other potential child. Oh my God. So far no one has come forward with Epstein’s James.

So that leads to only two possibilities in my mind. [00:58:00] Okay. Either. The, the, the child did not know that they were Epstein’s child or the child does not exist. Because if the child knew that they were Epstein’s child, somebody could be like, oh, the indignity of having the public know that you were related to Epstein.

You could just spin that into a sob story about how you were abused and how sad it was and the inside story and not have to deal with that much blowback, to be honest. Just be like, look, my mom was graved. Like, what are you, what are you talking about? Like, I have no loyalty to this man, but I want $600 million with the upside being $600 million.

Simone Collins: Yeah, dude, I don’t think anyone’s gonna. To not step right up, but it’s very easy. That seized island,

Malcolm Collins: that’s

Simone Collins: a

Malcolm Collins: nice looking island, guys. Come on.

Simone Collins: No one wants an island. But yeah, I mean, I, I, I’m not, I thought his, his state would’ve been seized by the state or something that surprises me. Oh no.

Malcolm Collins: As I understand, it’s, it would go to his kid if he had a kid, especially if they were abused by him.

Which,

Simone Collins: no, no. He seems like the kind of person who would have some kind of weird [00:59:00] ironclad, super well organized estate plan. So is this actually verified that he has a, an estate that is known? Yes. Yes. He had an estate

Malcolm Collins: plan. It

has

Malcolm Collins: no kids in it.

Simone Collins: Wow, okay.

Malcolm Collins: So I’m just saying not only did he not put them in the estate

Simone Collins: plan, I just don’t get it though.

Because then why, why have this whole plan on this like breeding ranch.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Now, here’s

Simone Collins: the other, if he allegedly killed any kids that he had,

Malcolm Collins: right? So let’s talk about that. Right? So, the question is one, why kill the children if he wanted to create a breeding ranch?

Simone Collins: Right?

Malcolm Collins: The breeding ranch idea in his mind, appeared to be like that.

He would have high quality women who he’d have the kids with. I do not think that he respected the women. That he was having these kids was enough to see it as the worth, the risk of saving them. Two, you could say. Did they just drop them off at like a a random, you know, no ask orphanage. Right.

The problem with this, and why I think he didn’t drop them off at a no ask [01:00:00] orphanage is twofold. One is, is it would’ve added significant risk to him. A a a kid appearing out of nowhere, even at an an orphanage like that is always a loose end that could come back to haunt him, right? And really badly.

I mean, that’s a pretty big smoking gun, a human being and a human being that might have a grudge against him. Why? Like, in his mind, why allow that? Right. Especially if he didn’t respect the mom and didn’t want to have a kid with her, right? Second the, the, the second is that. Even if he did leave them at in OAS orphanages.

I, as somebody who has donated sperm before that has become a kid that I’m not participating in raising or anything like that. I at least have the ego to check in to see what that kid is doing and stuff like that. And if I had no biological kids other than that kid, they’d probably be a, a, a major factor in my will.

Right? Like if I had no one to give money to outside of like, if my wife and my brother and all my kids died, I would [01:01:00] care about that. Right. Given that Epstein cared about his legacy he would definitely have a backup listing these kids that he had given away to orphanages, right? Like if, if that Oh no, absolutely.

He would,

Simone Collins: I feel like you’re, you’re, you’re discounting this potentiality that he just wanted complete control over his progeny and would have them like raised in some secreted area. Separately away from the public eye under his control. And if he did,

Malcolm Collins: they would know They were his, after

Simone Collins: his young women.

He didn’t, I know obviously they didn’t seem to like him very much. I mean, he wouldn’t want them involved at all. He would probably want them to think that their children were dead. You know what I mean? Like

Malcolm Collins: Right. But Simone, what I’m saying is, is if he had done that,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It’s not impossible that he would have done something like that.

It is impossible that he did something like that. And they don’t care about the $600 million estate. That is not possible. [01:02:00] It, they may

Simone Collins: not know

Malcolm Collins: if they were raised in secret. Their caregivers know.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And even if their caregivers don’t know, if Epstein went through all the trouble to set up secret caregivers, he definitely would’ve had them in his will.

Especially knowing how

Simone Collins: at risk. Not necessarily. I mean, I think most smart people who have been around wealthy people know that trust fund kids don’t necessarily have very successful outcomes. He probably was doing them a favor by not writing them into his,

Malcolm Collins: oh, come not Epstein, Simone. You’re thinking like Elon or something here.

Epstein wanted his kids, if he had kids, to have all the money, power, and connections in the world. Mm-hmm. That is the way that faction. Does things when they pass things on to their kids he 100% is not the type of person who would’ve been [01:03:00] like, I want my kids to, you know, have it tough. So they build a character that is not Epstein.

Epstein wanted to breed a ruling elite who saw themselves as Nobles.

I’m sorry, Epstein has no living kids and given that Epstein has no living kids I think one of the things we see with his broad ideology versus our abroad ideology is he was playing make-believe for keeps. He never actually implemented the things that he would need to implement. And even when blessings came his way, like potential children, he just disposed of them rather than raising them.

And the risks that that entailed to him,

Simone Collins: he, he dead because there’s only one thing that I wanna do to people who. Even think about hurting babies. Oh my God. You know, we’re

Malcolm Collins: on the other side of things. You have people like us, wholesome, maxing, right? Mm-hmm. Our lives away with, you know, nice family, loving wife, [01:04:00] bunch of kids.

Very, very different. But we have, we’re still in the game of actually winning. Now here’s a connection that I bet you didn’t expect. Epstein had a close relationship with Bobby Kotick, the former CEO of Activision Blizzard, what the makers of Call of Duty, world of Warcraft, candy Crush, Diablo and Overwatch.

EK’s name pairs 300 times in the Epstein Files. Emails from 2013 show Epstein and Epstein and Kotek discussing ways to use microtransactions in games like Call of Duty to quote, teach kids to spend money for the rest of their lives as early as possible in quote, what,

Simone Collins: what?

Malcolm Collins: One email describes this as quote, indoctrinating kids into our an economy end quote.

Rather than focusing on education with suggestions for quote, sexy rewards, end quote, guns and virtual items to hook young players. This coincided with Black Ops [01:05:00] two introducing microtransactions. Oh no, in 2012 and thousand 13, it’s his

Simone Collins: fault. It’s

Malcolm Collins: Epstein, which reshaped game spending. Epstein invented microtransactions.

Simone Collins: How dare he? How dare he?

Malcolm Collins: Did you believe this world? He invented microtransactions in games. But I also point out here that they were invented in part to brainwash kids, to teach kids to spend money for the rest of their lives as early as possible. Now, note here. Things like that are not the type of thing that ever comes up in a conversation with people on our faction.

Yeah. Whether that be at a secret society like dialogue or with somebody like Elon,

Simone Collins: no. Legit. That just does not come up unless it’s in the context of how do we fight this?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Everyone would look at them like, why? Why are you just evil maxing over there, bro? Yeah. Anyway. To continue. Epstein donated significantly to transhumanist organizations.

In 2011, he gave $20,000 to the Worldwide Transhumanist [01:06:00] Association, now Humanity Plus, which for promotes ethical technology to expand human capabilities. He also hosted gatherings, was prominent scientists including Nobel Laureates which we talked about already. He looked at freezing bodies talked about that.

His funding extends to institutions like Harvard and University, where he donated 6.5 million to the program for evolutionary dynamics oh, gosh.

Simone Collins: What?

Malcolm Collins: So, here’s some other fun quotes from him. God African music do, do, do African primitive reflects the structure. He thought African cognitive layer while western music is rigid and Chinese music is nature based. What?

But

Simone Collins: what that is a, that is a dumb take. There’s a lot of African music that is amazing. One of my favorite albums. I mean, I like African US Fusion. There’s this great album that I still can’t get access to, like, on streaming platforms. It makes me so mad called Molly to Memphis that like, it fuses more traditional music in Mali with like, sort of [01:07:00] Southern American.

It’s so good. But of course he, I don’t know, man. I hate this man. If he hurts babies, I can’t EI can’t. Hmm uh, I mean. Obviously he was back. So by the way, he,

Malcolm Collins: Paid for his own genetic testing through the Human Genome Project.

Simone Collins: No, back when it was really expensive. All right.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. $6,000.

Simone Collins: Oh goodness.

Malcolm Collins: He gave his MIT media lab donations were $2 million.

MIT Media lab. Mind you, we looked at doing an event with them. They support synthetic biology and ai genetics intersections.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Yeah. I mean, I, I appreciate the parallels you are drawing here. Right. That he, he was playing for keeps, he was trying to win the future in human civilization. Yeah. First,

Malcolm Collins: any, [01:08:00] anyone who isn’t just posturing cares about genetics. Yeah. Anyone

Simone Collins: who

Malcolm Collins: isn’t

Simone Collins: just

Malcolm Collins: posturing cares about maximizing fertility rates

Simone Collins: well, and again, just overcoming the limits of human biology, that that’s just the game.

But he also just the evilness of killing a child. If that’s what happened. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I think that this might be how, you know, I thought more about it, and I actually think this, do you delete comments that are critical of you is sort of such a great thing for a deeper drive into your actual psyche. Mm-hmm. Which is to say the type of person who doesn’t care about doing that, doesn’t care about how they shape the narrative, doesn’t care about, you know, doing like a gene drive to try to make the American black population smarter or something like that.

Like tries to do the genetic stuff but without opt-in and everything like that.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: This is the type of person who can walk into a party and see somebody having like violent [01:09:00] SEX with someone and not care about it. Right. Like, I, I think fully like actually just like model, like what you’ve seen publicly.

If Greta Thornberg saw somebody being like violently assaulted at a party and everyone else was acting cool with it and it was a bunch of other rich people who she had seen before, or high profile people that she had seen before, she’d just go along with it. She’d just be like, oh yeah, whatever. Isn’t that hilarious?

She doesn’t actually have the moral fortitude to stand against the the mob. Right. And I think that the people with the moral fortitude to stand against the mob, even when they have vastly different ideologies, can immediately recognize each other.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s the best example because like if you’re walking into A-B-D-S-M party, you would expect to see that and you would be like, yeah, I’m not gonna intervene. ‘cause they obviously want that. If that’s

Malcolm Collins: con No, but you are someone like Trump. You see something like this happening and you go, [01:10:00] I’m gonna call the feds.

Right. You don’t do it then and there.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But do you think that Greta Thornberg calls the feds on her donor’s party on some, I dunno,

Simone Collins: I

Malcolm Collins: can’t model her wealthy bigwigs party. No, she wouldn’t. No. Not at all worse if it was a Muslim party, right? She goes to one of these, you know, I mean, I would be surprised if she’s seen something like that before, given the groups that she’s hanging out with these days are funded by the Hamas.

And we know how common that is within those organizations, right? That she’s just like, yep, keeping my moss shut. I know where my bread’s buttered. And so I actually think that that’s a really good sort of sorting mechanism is like, which side, which faction are you fighting for? Are you fighting for the Templars?

Are you fighting for those skeezy assassins?

Simone Collins: Oh, the skeezy assassins.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you to DeSimone. Do you have, do you have I mean one of my final thoughts that I was gonna go into that I think is very funny [01:11:00] is Trump and sorry, Epstein’s, like normal life, like just sitting around and playing video games and stuff like that.

Like Oh yeah. He actually Epstein Day, what we see from all this, ‘cause we can get an understanding of what Epstein’s daily life was like, is very similar to him. You and I sort of sit at the center of a spider web that is directed at or is one of the central nodes of a spider web that is directed at ensuring the, a, a, a specific direction of, of survival for the human species, right.

And continuation and thriving of that species. And he was in many ways f. One of the key Fi figures and one of the opposing webs, as you pointed out, there’s a few opposing webs, but in one of them, one of the, the biggest one in our neck of the woods in America. Mm-hmm. And that what’s funny is never would I trade my life for his in terms of even, even [01:12:00] before he’s caught or anything like that.

Right. Like, it’s actually clear. And I think that this is a funny thing, is these people who dive into the depravity as he did, they are not, like, he doesn’t get the kids, he doesn’t get the five kids jumping on him every day that I get. Right. Like he doesn’t get the actual happiness. Right. Even though he may live without empathy for the people that he’s hurting, he is not getting the goodness either.

Right. Like, his life actually seemed pretty boring and sad.

Simone Collins: Pretty empty. Yeah. Well actually, you know, there’s this really interesting parallel too. I mean, with his well, well documented massage addiction. And I just, I, I associate that with a level of deep depression and meaninglessness that I also recognize from.

Unauthorized biographies of, of Princess Diana, of all people.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: But she also had like, after like the [01:13:00] separation from Prince Charles when she was sort of just struggling and, and like clearly deeply depressed, just constantly getting massages, you don’t get constant massages and engaged in insane levels of self-care if you’re not spiraling in some way.

Like I, the, the correlation between my mental health improving and the, the number of self-care procedures I got is completely inverse. Completely inverse. So I think that’s also a thing. He, he does not seem like a happy person at all. He seems like a deeply unhappy person who was optimizing around some very evil equations.

Deeply, deeply evil equations, and he lost his way entirely. And I’m really glad he’s, well, if he’s not dead, I hope he gets what’s coming to him big time. And then [01:14:00] some.

Malcolm Collins: Alright. Love you to Deone.

Simone Collins: Yeah, love you too. Oh, there’s that one, like that, that method of execution from Handmaid’s Tale where like, if a man had non consensually surprised sexed a woman, especially a handmaid that his punishment was to be torn apart by hand, by the Handmaids.

That would work well for Epstein. Was this this legal in that society or No, that was No, that was like how it was done. You know, like death by, it wasn’t, you know, death by firing squad. It wasn’t death by lethal injection. It was, it was death by like the, the, the hands of Handmaids. If you had assaulted a handmaid in that way.

And there’s like, from the show, there’s a scene where that happens. Like he, he’s just like, I think left tied on the ground and just they, they descend upon him. And of course he said like angry enslaved women [01:15:00] who get to take it out on a man for once. So there’s nothing really left at the end of it of him.

I think that would be, I think that would be appropriate.

Malcolm Collins: Alright.

Simone Collins: I don’t know why people are so against Gilead. Come on. It had some great, I fantastic Gilead maxing. That’s what you were all about. Fantastic outfits. You know, I think people want to be in uniforms and I think that people want to tear certain criminals, limb for limb.

Alright. Just let it be. Also, I don’t know why firing squads aren’t the norm. Those actually are, like, if I had to be killed by something, it would be a firing squad. Apparently though Charlie Kirk’s killer might die by firing squad if he is. Executed. So apparently some states then are actually bringing it back, which I mean, it’s, it’s kind.

Malcolm Collins: Well, Simone,

Simone Collins: yes.

Malcolm Collins: Question. What are we doing for dinner tonight? I remember you had already decided

Simone Collins: those premium hot dogs that were gifted to us.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah. So I’ll look up a good way to cook them. [01:16:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean the, the key way, ‘cause I was just gonna walk fry the cooked hot dogs. So I’m gonna steam them.

‘cause remember I don’t boil hot dogs. I steam them for whatever reason. It just, I think works better. And then when they’re finished, I will stir fry them till

Malcolm Collins: golden brown.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, until like a little crispy on the edges in whatever oil of your choice or sauce of your choice. We do have Mongolian beef sauce left.

It’s a sauce that’s based with, it’s mostly soy sauce and brown sugar, if we’re being honest. Which I don’t think is a bad choice for hot dogs.

Malcolm Collins: My concern about it with hot dogs is it’ll be too sweet and hot dogs are already on the sweeter side in, in terms of a meat.

Simone Collins: People put ketchup on hot. They put sugar on hot dogs.

That’s like the most common hot dog condiment is red sugar.

Malcolm Collins: Would it taste good with Mongolian? I would, if I was going to do it with the Mongolian beef sauce

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I would oil down the Mongolian beef sauce before

Simone Collins: doing it. With what kind of Just [01:17:00] a,

Flavorless oil

Malcolm Collins: be all,

Simone Collins: or do you want it?

Sesame sea sesame oil, because that’s a very, like, it’s a strong flavor.

Malcolm Collins: Sesame oil would be fine. Yeah. Just, just something a little less strong than the full Mongolian beef experience.

Simone Collins: Well, we can also just do like chili flake oil, if you prefer.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, to cook it in chili flick oil. Yeah, that would be pretty good.

Simone Collins: Why don’t you do that? Chili flick oil and butter, chili flick oil butter. And those, if I have any, I, I think I have, I’ve not used them all those peppers. If not, we’ll just put a lot of green onion on top, but does that sound good? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. And I like the idea of cutting it into like pieces first and then we can put those in the are we gonna do a hotdog bun or a real bun or what’s the story here?

Simone Collins: That we’re gonna do it over rice, though. We can also serve them on toasted Hawaiian buns.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. Toasted Hawaiian buns.

Simone Collins: You’re so crazy for those.

Malcolm Collins: What? [01:18:00] They’re good.

Simone Collins: I know they’re cake. That’s why you like them. It’s cake. Okay. It’s not bread. It’s, but they’re like, no. Yeah, me explaining

Malcolm Collins: that it’s too

Simone Collins: sweet.

It’s, I feel like it’s really insensitive given the high rates of obesity in Hawaii. Like, it, it’s like calling I don’t know, like a hostess cupcake. Oh, it’s just a Hawaiian muffin, you know? Or like a Hawaiian roll. No, no, guys, it’s not like, like calling it twine, like, oh, it’s just a, it’s a protein bar.

No, the Hawaiian protein bar. Anyway.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you to desk.

Simone Collins: Goodbye.

Malcolm Collins: Goodbye.

Simone Collins: Epstein’s. So horrible. Record.

It is funny, the things that now turn out to very clearly reveal that something was done by AI versus the things [01:19:00] that people thought would reveal.

Malcolm Collins: Tell me

Simone Collins: ing test. I mean, like even early on, the easiest way that I was able to know if a song or someone reading Reddit threads was a real human versus fake was the way that they would mispronounce certain words.

And the YouTubers and content creators that I watch mispronounce words all the time and I love it. But the way that Ai mispronounces stuff is, is very different. Like, it’s not a resume. It’s a resume. And it, things like that just show up very consistently. They’re the, for me, they’re the M dash of

Malcolm Collins: they re did they actually put the correct thing on it?

Simone Collins: Oh, no, they don’t. But that’s the thing is they don’t see the context, whereas a human sees the context.

Malcolm Collins: Mm. So

Simone Collins: it’s little tricks. It’s all in the details. And that’s gonna be o overcome soon.

Malcolm Collins: And that is why my horrible spelling is now an amazing [01:20:00] thing to have.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Because

Malcolm Collins: people know I don’t send them AI messages because

Simone Collins: I Yeah.

You’re like yeah. It’s it’s, it’s how you jam the systems. It’s how you beat it.

Malcolm Collins: I send you misspelled messages because I want you to know I took the time to write it myself.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s it’s, it’s, it’s the thoughtfulness of it all.

Malcolm Collins: All right, Sam.

Speaker: From the shadows will pull every string, keep the masses obedient, make the kiss. The ring will go with the climate, will thin out the weak so we can rule forever.[01:21:00]

Will build, super soldiers will spread through the stars. No thrones in the darkness will win with our scars. We’ll let it, the genes will breed. Without shame, we’ll conquer the future and stay.

Stand O’Neil my puppets. Safe in our hands. Reforge, the future for those who can fight you. Cradle the too. Hide from the light. We gate keep the. Power. We lock it away. We’ll live forever while you fade away. Davos environmentalism, bloodline so pure will control every nation, every gene, every pure. We’ll open the gates.

Let the best rise and fight we’ll. Flood the stars with our children at night. No Hidden [01:22:00] Thrones. No cowardly. We win in the.

We’ll decide who is worthy we’ll them forever. We leave you behind. Your rebellion is die

the battling.

The other flight will rewrite. Humanity will break every chain, but only one faction in the end,

[01:23:00] the.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe