UGO09: Playing the Players in a Narrative Market ft. Ben Hunt
Top Traders Unplugged
Why markets are the ultimate multiplayer game
Ben explains markets as distributed games and why 'playing the player'—story and inference—matters more than raw data.
Cem Karsan sits down with Ben Hunt, founder of Epsilon Theory, to explore how narratives shape markets, politics, and decision making itself. Drawing on decades of experience across academia, hedge funds, and applied AI, Ben explains why stories, not data, increasingly drive outcomes in modern markets. The conversation spans unstructured data, inference, common knowledge, and the mechanics of narrative momentum. Together, they examine consumer expectations, inflation silence, geopolitical signaling, and the slow shift away from US dominance. What emerges is a framework for understanding markets as reflexive systems, where perception often matters more than reality.
-----
50 YEARS OF TREND FOLLOWING BOOK AND BEHIND-THE-SCENES VIDEO FOR ACCREDITED INVESTORS - CLICK HERE
-----
Follow Niels on Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube or via the TTU website.
IT’s TRUE ? – most CIO’s read 50+ books each year – get your FREE copy of the Ultimate Guide to the Best Investment Books ever written here.
And you can get a free copy of my latest book “Ten Reasons to Add Trend Following to Your Portfolio” here.
Learn more about the Trend Barometer here.
Send your questions to info@toptradersunplugged.com
And please share this episode with a like-minded friend and leave an honest Rating & Review on iTunes or Spotify so more people can discover the podcast.
Follow Cem on Twitter.
Episode TimeStamps:
00:00 - Introduction to U Got Options and the trading floor setting
02:18 - Ben Hunt’s background and Epsilon Theory origins
04:11 - Markets as the ultimate multiplayer game
06:15 - Inference, unstructured data, and narrative analysis
08:18 - Why sentiment and word counts miss the real signal
11:16 - Mapping meaning and truthy stories
15:00 - LLMs as operating systems, not oracles
18:01 - Giving money back and when models stop working
21:16 - Applying narrative tools beyond markets
24:10 - Consumer weakness versus bullish expectations
30:43 - Inflation, recession, and why markets do not care
33:29 - Dormant stories and volatility discovery
34:26 - The sell America narrative and capital flows
40:05 - Common knowledge and reflexivity
45:44 - Regime change, multipolarity, and narrative dominance
Copyright © 2025 – CMC AG – All Rights Reserved
----
PLUS: Whenever you're ready... here are 3 ways I can help you in your investment Journey:
1. eBooks that cover key topics that you need to know about
In my eBooks, I put together some key discoveries and things I have learnt during the more than 3 decades I have worked in the Trend Following industry, which I hope you will find useful. Click Here
2. Daily Trend Barometer and Market Score
One of the things I’m really proud of, is the fact that I have managed to published the Trend Barometer and Market Score each day for more than a decade...as these tools are really good at describing the environment for trend following managers as well as giving insights into the general positioning of a trend following strategy! Click Here
3. Other Resources that can help you
And if you are hungry for more useful resources from the trend following world...check out some precious resources that I have found over the years to be really valuable. Click Here
The AI-powered Podcast Player
