Rishi Sunak says patience is a bigger competitive advantage than speed, that every decision that reaches a leader is 50-50 by definition because if it weren't someone else would have made it, that the long term is just a succession of short terms you either survived or got kicked out of, and that the thing he wishes he'd done more of in his career is read fiction — because non-fiction tells you what to do and how to do it but fiction teaches you why and gives you a deeper understanding of people.

Akshata Murty says her identity was never her father's name or her husband's title, that the middle path between stoicism and epicureanism is where the answer almost always lives, and that the validation she chases is impact — not position, not wealth, not the approval of people who've already decided who she is.

First couple's episode we've ever done, and it went places none of us expected.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction

06:04 Foundery: India's consumer brand accelerator

12:20 Storytelling as a leadership superpower

18:05 Parents' pharmacy inspired political career

24:04 Educating children in the AI era

30:05 Leaning into human skills over AI

36:17 How Rishi and Akshata decide differently

42:10 Goldman Sachs to Prime Minister journey

48:03 Patience as an underrated competitive advantage

54:15 Entering politics: resilience, patience, service

1:00:06 Staying unapologetically Indian in British politics

1:06:51 Life inside 10 Downing Street

1:12:20 AI sovereignty and global trade tensions

1:18:32 De-globalisation and supply chain resilience

1:24:38 Free trade, tariffs, and level playing fields

1:31:17 Akshata's identity beyond famous family

1:37:53 Validation through impact, not inheritance

1:44:04 Finding balance between desire and austerity

1:50:04 Being kind to yourself after failure

1:56:42 Identity, heritage, and the living bridge

2:03:03 Nostalgic Bangalore food and childhood memories

2:09:05 Why young Indians should enter politics

2:16:03 Education, financial literacy, and compounding

2:22:04 Learning to learn in the AI age

2:29:52 How Rishi and Akshata use AI daily

2:37:09 Can AI truly be creative?

2:44:06 Losing the Prime Ministership: lessons in dharma

2:51:30 Poets versus politicians: who should we hear?

2:58:17 Motivating young people to shape policy

Nikhil Kamath

Co-founder of Zerodha and Gruhas

Host of 'WTF is' & 'People By WTF' Podcast

Twitter: https://x.com/nikhilkamathcio/
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Nikhil Kamath

Rishi Sunak

Akshata Murty

Watch on Spotify

Rishi Sunak & Akshata Murty: Dharma, Failure & The Middle Path | Nikhil Kamath | People by WTF

People by WTF

Leadership, long term thinking and short‑term survival

Nikhil Kamath

Rishi Sunak

Akshata Murty

Watch on Spotify

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