Intro

New @greenpillnet pod out today! 🌐

In this episode of the Greenpill Podcast, Kevin Owocki sits down with Shaw, founder of ElizaOS, to talk about AI agents, open source culture, and what it means to build meaningful systems in an age of automation.

Shaw reflects on shipping ElizaOS through the bear market, lessons from agent-native games, navigating hype cycles, and why software is becoming cheaper while agency, ownership, and coordination matter more than ever. They explore AI agents as collaborators, the future of work, crypto culture, abundance networks, and why communities not speculation should define what comes next.

A candid conversation about AI, culture, and building with purpose.

🌱 greenpill.network @greenpillnet https://x.com/owocki https://x.com/shawmakesmagic

Some of the materials you may be interested in checking out.

Join EthBoulder and see Shaw speak February 14, 2026: https://luma.com/o9qpeepn Guest Twitter/X: https://x.com/shawmakesmagic Guest Farcaster: https://farcaster.xyz/shawmakesmagic Guest Website: https://elizaos.ai ElizaOS GitHub: https://github.com/elizaOS/eliza ElizaOS Docs: https://docs.elizaos.ai ElizaOS on X: https://x.com/elizaos The Great Online Game (Packy McCormick): https://www.notboring.co/p/the-great-online-game The Meritverse (M3): https://paragraph.com/@m3org/the-meritverse Context Graphs (Foundation Capital): https://foundationcapital.com/context-graphs-ais-trillion-dollar-opportunity/ Clank Tank (M3): https://paragraph.com/@m3org/clank-tank

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 – Intro & why Shaw's work matters 01:10 – Catching up after the bear market 03:00 – How Shaw's perspective on AI has changed 05:10 – From Eliza v1 to ElizaOS 07:20 – Shipping fast & throwing code away 09:30 – AI agents as autonomous actors 12:00 – Agent-native games as experimentation spaces 15:10 – Open source, forks & losing mindshare 18:00 – Hype cycles, narratives & incentives 21:00 – Why "code is getting cheap" 24:00 – Rewriting systems & technical tradeoffs 27:00 – What AI agents still can't do 30:00 – Builder culture vs speculation culture 33:00 – Centralized platforms & getting banned 36:00 – Decentralized social: what's missing 39:00 – Are AI agents taking jobs? 41:30 – Meaning, agency & human creativity 44:00 – Ownership, UBI & coordination problems 46:30 – Abundance networks & positive-sum systems 49:00 – What Shaw wants to build next 51:00 – Closing thoughts