Timothy Leduc is faculty in Land-based and Indigenous Social Work at Wilfrid Laurier University in Brantford, Ontario. He is author of A Canadian Climate of Mind (2016) that looks at climate change as a spiritual initiation into healing the pain at the root of modern culture.In this conversation, we talk about being stuck within a system that extracts and destroys the Earth, not knowing how to hold onto hope within that system, and being, instead, moved by the numinous "technologies" of nature. At a time when there is crisis everywhere, can education find ground to bring people together? Can social workers acquaint themselves with ecological connections? Are we able, as a people, to break from the doom and gloom of modern industrial capitalism?Leduc is a thinker who gains power and solace from engaging with Indigenous knowledges; knowing that he is limited as a settler and as a human with a necessarily finite capacity for reasoning, he also finds meaning in humility.