Limits of free energy principle at higher levels

Jim talks with cognitive scientist and AI researcher Joscha Bach about the computational and representational foundations of consciousness, mind, and reality. They discuss the phenomenology of waking up and coalescing into a self, language as a representational architecture and natural language as "a genre of music," the brain as a game engine constructing a simulated world, the "feeling of realness" as a hallucination, "to be real means to be implemented" as a criterion for reality, money as an AI and a mechanism for reward allocation, the need for multi-dimensional organizational signaling beyond money, the apparent reversibility of the universe as an emergent observational artifact, the block universe and its incompatibility with stacked emergence, causality as a model property and retrocausality at the level of agents, computation vs. the simulation hypothesis, the brain's object engine and the perceptual choice to see textures vs. named objects, aphantasia and metacognition about perception, why only simulations can be conscious, Christof Koch's shift from physicalism to panpsychism and the unreliability of revelatory mental states, consciousness as second-order perception distinct from selfhood, panpsychism's resurgence and its failure to formalize "the consciousness of a particle," consciousness as happening at neuronal communication speeds, intelligence vs. consciousness as relatively orthogonal dimensions, the Waymo as highly intelligent but not conscious, François Chollet's argument that deploying skills is not itself intelligent, consciousness as a consensus algorithm analogous to blockchain, whether a bacterium or a cat needs a self-model to achieve coherence, emotion and motivation as core to cognition in MicroPsi, Karl Friston's free energy principle and its limits at higher emergent levels, humans as "multicellular at the next level" forming transcendental agents, the global optimum of collectively enacted agency as "God" as the ultimate source of meaning, and much more. Episode Transcript California Institute for Machine Consciousness (CIMC) Principles of Synthetic Intelligence, by Joscha Bach JRS EP 72 - Joscha Bach on Minds, Machines & Magic JRS EP 87: Joscha Bach on Theories of Consciousness - JRS EP Currents 83: Joscha Bach on Synthetic Intelligence Joscha Bach is a cognitive scientist and AI researcher, and the founder of the California Institute for Machine Consciousness. In the past, he researched and taught at Humboldt University of Berlin, the Institute of Cognitive Science in Osnabrück, MIT Media Lab, the Harvard Program for Evolutionary Dynamics and Intel Labs. He has helped build several startups and created the cognitive architecture MicroPsi, which studies the relationship between emotion, motivation and cognition. He currently lives in the Bay area in California.