Closing reflections

Professor Kim Lane Scheppele has watched democracies fail before. She tells Harry there's still time to stop Trump's autocratic revolution, but only if its opponents match their effort to the scale of the threat. Professor Scheppele talks through the democracies that have degraded into autocracies including which ones most nearly resemble America under Trump's onslaught. The two then take up how grassroots activism can help turn the tide and how huge the task will be for any future pro-democracy president who wants to rebuild from the rubble.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices