Toilet learning: child-led versus pragmatic training

In this episode, we dive into the viral Australian academic advice (from Deakin University researchers) that parents should ask babies for “consent” before changing their diapers. It sounds absurd on the surface—and we roast it hard—but we also steelman their perspective before tearing it apart.

We explore how this philosophy ties into extreme gentle parenting trends (no timeouts without consent? No punishments?), the misuse of “consent” as the sole argument against adult-minor relationships (spoiler: it’s not about consent; it’s about developmental stages and guardianship), and why removing natural threats/fears from kids’ lives might fuel modern anxiety epidemics.

From ritualized diaper changes that feel suspiciously fetish-adjacent, to using clinical terms like “vulva/penis/anus” on infants vs. fun family euphemisms like “doty” and “flippy,” we share our unfiltered parenting stories—including epic blowouts, bribery for potty training, and why our kids aren’t anxious wrecks despite (or because of) our pragmatic, authoritative style.

We also touch on Krampus, ancestral fear exposure, nursing home STDs, and why suburb-raised girls invent existential threats. Plus: a chaotic domestic tangent about poop smells, manga villains, and who’s making dinner.

If you’re tired of overthinking parenting and want a raw, evidence-based take on why kids actually need guardians (not mini-adults), this one’s for you.

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. Today we are going to be talking about children and consent and infants and consent uhoh.

And we are going to be using it went viral a while ago, this story where a leftist university specifically it was the Deacon University in Australia

suggested that you ask your baby consent before changing their diapers. And Simone is just sharing a story about changing Texas diapers.

So, you know, on, on topic here. But it’s, it comes off as ridiculous at face value. But I want to look at it from their eyes, not like the other people covering. I wanna see how they argue for it, why they think it’s important, right. And then I want to go from there to look at other instances in which parents and parental advocates have been advocating for.

Extreme consent searching from children before, like punishment and everything like that. And we saw this like in my Stephen Mullany debate where you know, like asking

Simone Collins: for consent for timeout,

Malcolm Collins: well they don’t, don’t do timeouts ‘cause a kid [00:01:00] wouldn’t consent to it. Right. You know, you know, it’s only gentle parenting.

Only nice parenting. And so I wanna go into this philosophy in its extremes, but I’m also gonna be arguing that a a lot of people have misunderstood. And I think where the concept of consent creeped into children’s, the literature and the concept of children needing consent, is that for whatever reason, the urban monoculture decided to use a lack of consent to argue why, you know, we do not have sex with minors.

And I actually think that that’s. Completely stupid. Like that is not why you don’t have sex with a minor consent. And I, I, I mean, I’ve argued this with animals where I point out that, you know, the reason we don’t have sex with animals isn’t that the animal can’t consent because we

Simone Collins: eat

Malcolm Collins: animals and we like raise them in a state of constant torture if you’re talking about veal or farm chicken or something like that.

Oh, goodness. And, and people protest that, but you know, they’re, they’re, they’re at the same time, they’re like, oh, consent, consent, consent, you know, is why we don’t [00:02:00] do it. It’s a disease risk with, with animals.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: There, that’s why a lot of cultures convergently evolved that particular belief.

But with children, I, I point out here that, okay, like you’ve got like a 15-year-old or something like that, right? Like, okay, a, a 15-year-old in terms of their cognition is. Well, more advanced than many elderly individuals, many mentally handicapped individuals. Sure. 15 year olds are actually fairly sharp.

They’re almost as

Simone Collins: smart as pigs.

Malcolm Collins: As pigs. I’m kidding. Okay. And I think even if you go back of it, I mean, I think even like 13 year olds and 12 year olds are fairly smart. Like smarter. I, I’d say that the average, like 13-year-old I talk to is smarter and more cognitively there than the average person I’m talking to in a nursing home.

Simone Collins: Oh, no. Like 100%. I mean, people in nursing homes on average are dealing with pretty severe cognitive decline. Plus they’re also super set in their ways, whereas people who are teens are in this [00:03:00] Right. Incredible position. But I mean, you could even argue that an 8-year-old is there because also the 8-year-old is unencumbered by all of the hormonal vicissitudes that a teenager has to endure.

So, but

Malcolm Collins: yeah, the, the point being is. Nobody, or very few people are arguing that people in nursing homes shouldn’t be having sex. That’s actually Oh, when people have like the most sex in like Yeah. People are like

Simone Collins: power to the people. Like Yeah. Split it up

Malcolm Collins: like this big thing of like people sleeping around a lot in like huge, yeah.

Simone Collins: STDs being a really big issue with nursing homes. Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: nursing homes. But I, I, I think there’s very few people, even a lot of lefties that would argue that like a 13-year-old should be sleeping around. And so it’s, it’s clearly even for them, they understand intuitively it isn’t a consent issue.

And this’ll be a lot of what I’m talking about in this piece. And I talked about it before, but I think it’s very important for people to, is it’s a stage of development issue. It’s at that stage of development. Are you expected to take you know, sort of [00:04:00] internal responsibility for the way you relate to rules, the way you relate to the world around you?

Are you essentially supposed to be living under a guardian or are you not? Like, is that the way your brain is structured?

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And when you’re living under a guardian, obviously the guardian has final say on the things you do and do not do. Right. The punishments, et cetera. And, and we’ll be arguing that you are cognitively sort of loaded to be living in this environment and to take an a, a younger person out of this environment.

Can actually be very damaging. And not just with a guardian, but I also think, and this is something that we do a lot with our parenting with, with, with fear, with uncertainty with this was all normal in an ancestral context and we removed this from people’s lives and I think did a lot of damage.

Huh. And you can see our video where we point out that you actually see, like, you know, when you’re looking at some rates of like mental health issues and stuff like that, you see them at higher rates in wealthier young girls than in like. Young girls who live in more urban or or less wealthy environments.

Mm-hmm. And that is [00:05:00] like, it’s a suburb girl thing, right? And, and I, I argue that that’s because their brain is, is, is trying to search for threats. And when you remove all of the threats from their lives, they begin to assign everything a threat. Like, well, Donald Trump is trying to. They put me in the breeding pins, right?

Like everybody, every guy who looks at me wrong wants to grate me. You know, I I’m in a constant threat because somebody said that they disagree with my view of gender, right? Like, they’re, they’re trying to wipe out my people, right? Like they invent all of these existential threats because their brain is meant to deal with existential threats.

Mm. And this is part of why we do Krampus and everything like that with our kids and, and when Togo and everything, but let’s start with nappy changes are not just a chore to rush through. You can use them to teach consent. And this is from the that, that school in Australia, okay? Mm. This is 2023 paper.

There has been a lot of focus on the need to teach older children about consent. And this link that they have here, I think is very telling to what I’m talking to about here. [00:06:00] It’s, it’s, it’s about teaching teenagers about consent as it relates to sex. And I’m, I’m like, that is clearly not.

Like what we’re talking about with nappies, but you can see that they’re literally drawing that, that thread very directly in this sort of, I

Simone Collins: could see how your average progressive would get there, because nappies are an instance in which people are coming into direct content contact with your No, no zones.

So I, I can kind of see it. Yeah, like it’s just saying like, when your no-no zone is exposed and people are touching it. You need to have a conversation about consent. Like they’re not, they’re not trying to say it’s the same thing, but they’re trying to say in these contexts, you know, like, just be conditioned that this is all, this is consent conversation time because my pants are down.

That kind of thing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, and I think that, I’ve always actually found it very weird at doctor’s offices where the doctor always is like, you know, telling my kid, well, you know, it’s okay that I’m doing this because your dad is here. Or you know, like, wait, they say that. [00:07:00] Yeah. You never do doctor’s visits, so she doesn’t Yeah.

So I wouldn’t

Simone Collins: know. That’s what they what Are you serious?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but they’re like, this is, this is something that normally you shouldn’t let somebody do.

Simone Collins: Do you think they’ve been told to do that by their law firm? They don’t get sued or something. I,

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I don’t know. Like for me and for our family, I, I, like, I just do not think a lot about like, nudity one way or the other.

Like when our kids get up, we change them, whatever. And obviously this could discuss, we’re not allowed to

Simone Collins: because our kids just insist on randomly taking off their clothes. Yeah. Like, and nothing we do, including keeping the temperature of the house at 53 degrees seems to stop them from doing it.

Malcolm Collins: They just can’t stop.

Reporters are here or whatever and Torsten will just take off his pants and run. And I’m like, why?

Simone Collins: We get, we get swifty in here getting swifty.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: All the time.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway. But parents should not wait until kids are teenagers to talk about appropriate touching or how everyone has the right to say what happens to their body.

In fact, the earlier parents talk [00:08:00] about this with their kids, the better. And what’s very interesting here is you can see how, so naturally the idea of gender transitioning children comes from this. If your parents need to ask consent to even touch you as an infant if your parents need to act consent to touch you as, you know, a preteen.

Well, and, and, and, and, and, and look at the words here, right. Parents that should not wait until kids are teenagers to talk about appropriate touching or how everyone has a right to say what happens to their own body. Right. Like it’s clearly implying whatever your age, you have a right to say what happens to your body.

So you can see like a, a direct precursor right to this philosophy becoming normalized, which is one of the reasons I’m talking about this.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: The, this way consent becomes a normal, everyday part of life. Importantly, it also helps to keep kids safe from abuse as they learn what is okay and isn’t okay when it comes to their bodies.

You can start teaching little ones about consent even before they can talk. Here’s how you can do this during everyday care. [00:09:00] Try and, and I love this, this, their bodies, their bodies. It’s like a word I would never use about my children. Because like I, I, I guess is a little

Simone Collins: creepy.

Malcolm Collins: It’s creepy, right?

Like it’s an inherently sexualizing term. Try not to rush. Nappy changes can easily be seen by parents as a task to rush through and just quote, get done in quote. It seems like

Simone Collins: something that has been written by people who do not change diapers. Right. Have you changed a diaper, sir?

Malcolm Collins: Oh my God. So, but this can be a time to help children learn about consent and how their bodies work.

And here it’s linking to other articles that we’ll go into. Toileting is something young children will take charge of in the future. What happens before learning how to use the toilet should not be a mystery. Be clear about what’s going on at the start of a nappy change. Ensure your child knows what is happening.

Get down on [00:10:00] their level and say, you need a nappy change. And then pause so they can take this in. Have you ever done that, Simone?

Simone Collins: They just need a moment to grieve, don’t they?

Malcolm Collins: This is, it’s so antithetical. ‘cause I change her kids’ diapers all the time and I’m just like, you, you pick it up, you sniff, then throw ‘em on the table.

Throw on the table. Just change. Let them run off again. Right? Like I, the idea that you would like get down, like, it’s like, it’s

Simone Collins: very similar if you’ve seen videos of sheep shearing. I feel it’s kinda like that. Like you grab it, like you become like, like fast as you can go.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And they’re, they’re acting like a, like a salon or something like that for sheep.

They’re like, oh,

Simone Collins: oh. And we’re like, ah, and the sheep’s like blah, you know, like, whatever. You know, you gotta kind of restrain them a little. I don’t know, like maybe not everyone has to restrain their kids during diaper changes, but our kids are like, oh, it’s rasing time. Let’s go. And that’s not great when there’s, when there are little turds flying.

Not my favorite, [00:11:00] but it, it around like 18 months. That’s when our kids decide, oh, I can troll you while doing this.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my god. So it gets worse. It gets worse. Okay. So that thing I just said where they said to like, get down on their level and say you need a nappy change. Yeah. So

Simone Collins: I’m, I’m on my haunches.

I’m looking my kid in the eye and I’m, I’m asking them to let it settle in.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So this is happening before you have taken them to the table?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Mm-hmm. So

Malcolm Collins: did what you’re supposed to do.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Is you say, do you want to walk slash crawl with me to the change table? Crawl with me to carry you,

Simone Collins: girl. Do you have to buy knee pads for this?

What are we doing? Crawl with the I? No, I, so you know the age where every time I bend down I’m like, okay, what else can I do while I’m down here? Like I, let’s batch it. You know, if I’ve done this, we gotta make the [00:12:00] most of it. We’re gonna be down here for a while now. This I’m not No, no. We’re not doing.

Oh my God. But if the kid, can we look, can we figure out if this person is a parent? They must be a, a parent

Malcolm Collins: to one maybe. I, I assume somebody on the team is Yeah. Like the kind of person who takes

Simone Collins: like a year of maternity leave because they’re like, yeah, I really.

Malcolm Collins: This honestly sounds to me like somebody who just had a kid and is fantasizing about what it’s gonna be like to raise him instead of having actually raised a kid.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I think we all have, especially like, no, probably all of us have that friend on social media who hasn’t yet had kids, but is like, and this is how I’m going to be a mother and it’s gonna be so much better.

Malcolm Collins: But the, the point here being is that if the child, it’s implied here, does not walk with you or crawl to the table.

Mm-hmm. They don’t want their nappy chain. They just

Simone Collins: get to live with diaper rash. They get to have anal fissures and open lesions. They’re [00:13:00] into crinkling.

Malcolm Collins: Simone, lots of furries are into this that we need to be aware of their furry identity. No, I

Simone Collins: think, I don’t, here’s the thing is like, I think furry, like, sorry.

Adult baby diaper lovers. A b dls love, love to do it. Like they get off on the rush, maybe making other people smell there. The product of their defecation. However, anyone who’s actually dealt with poop and diapers, like either, because like, I don’t know, they’re bedridden and they’re wearing a diaper and there’s poop.

Or like they’ve had a kid who has gone to a crappy daycare where they don’t change their kid’s diaper and their kid ends up with like open wounds in their butt because of their terrible daycare. Thank God we don’t send our kids to daycare anymore. You know, like long-term exposure to, to poop is really bad for this kid.

It’s really bad. Like, no, I don’t think ADLs are, are crinkling for very long. If [00:14:00] anything it’s, it’s urine. It’s not the other thing, it’s nothing. I don’t

Malcolm Collins: know about that. I mean, I’ve read, I’ve, I’ve watched the rainforest documentaries on YouTube. Okay. Simone. The, the point I make is did

Simone Collins: they leave some of their nappies in the elevators though?

Like the, the, the diaper has been removed,

Malcolm Collins: the hot tubs and stuff and like, yeah,

Simone Collins: so the diaper has been removed. Like they’re not walking around with it. Like also our kids sometimes without like informing us before we even smell it. Like, we’ll just go ahead and just take off the diaper. And that’s always the scariest when you can smell it and then your kid walks up to you, your pre potty trained kid without pants and without their diaper and you’re like, oh god.

Malcolm Collins: That is, that is horrifying. But the point I’m making here is they’re basically saying that the kid can consent to do something. And the reason I highlight this is because I think it, it, it really mirrors youth gender transition where they’re doing something that is actively and obviously harmful to them.

And the adult for like a weird sexualized [00:15:00] reasons is okay with them doing it right? Like, yeah, yeah. The adult doesn’t know better that the kid needs to change their diapers. Right? Well,

Simone Collins: or it’s, I mean this could be if we’re gonna be super charitable, part of the other better parenting trend, which is the f around and find out parenting trend which we 100% ascribe to, which is alright, you wanna see how that goes?

Let’s see how that goes. Except the problem is typically when we’re talking about p pre potty trained children, they’re not really old enough to understand that cause and effect. So I think it’s an unfair and unduly cruel f around and find out parenting hack, if that’s what this is.

Malcolm Collins: To continue observe their facial expressions and body language to check if they don’t understand what is happening.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: Aim to be positive, gentle, and responsive to your child. The one

Simone Collins: thing that your kid has done since the moment they got out of the womb is having people change their diapers. S like,

Malcolm Collins: next. Well, no, I love this, this, this. Like, you gotta be positive and gentle all the [00:16:00] time. It reminds me of the harmony hut from like the Adams family.

It’s like,

Simone Collins: oh, what’s going on? What, what is happening to me? No. They know this has happened at a minimum of every three hours for as long as they can remember. Like, this is not a new and traumatic event. I, I can’t,

Malcolm Collins: I think you can make it a traumatic event by like doing all this stuff that this is talking about.

Oh yeah.

Simone Collins: Would you, would you like consent for me to change your diaper? Are you okay? Me? Oh my God. You

Malcolm Collins: know what, what scares me now is because I’m seeing your face doing that and you’re like a beautiful woman. And I’m imagining the people who actually do it look like complete, like gremlins. And now I’m like, oh God.

Like that’s, that’s even more horrifying.

Simone Collins: I have to send you a YouTube short where someone does a bit on, like, you just had a baby and your husband says he has gas, and it, you’ll get it. Or maybe, maybe you won’t if you haven’t seen me, like do all the, the antiga and an anti constipation exercises on our kids, but yeah, no.

When, when you actually like, think about [00:17:00] what babies are experiencing from their point of view, from adults during all of the like, baby treatment experiences, I don’t know. It, it is not my thing, it’s not my fetish. Okay,

Malcolm Collins: I’m glad. I’m glad. So, children are often encouraged to be distracted in nappy changes, to focus their attention on something else. For example, a well-meaning parent signs a song, sings a song to them or gives them a rattle to hold. But it’s important.

Children notice when someone is touching their most intimate parts and it says, don’t distract your child. Why is it important that the child notice when somebody’s touching them? Like that again, seems weird. Like, why, why do I want my kid? It’s like, I really want you to focus on what I’m doing to you right now.

Like be completely here in this zone as I change you. Right? I, you know, I wonder how these weird fetishes develop and now I’m like, may, maybe this is it like parents who ritualize [00:18:00] diaper changes?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Seriously. Even

Malcolm Collins: in early infancy, children can respond to consistent verbal cues. So try to use similar language and follow a regular nappy exchanging

Simone Collins: ritual.

Oh, so now we’re ritualizing it now. Now it’s like A-B-D-S-M practice. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: It involve children in the conversation. For example, can you please lift up your bottom so I can slide your nappy out? Oh, oh,

Simone Collins: no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is sounding like someone with a, a baby fetish. It does, right? Oh, no. Is that what this is?

No, don’t make me listen to this. Oh God, no. This is

Malcolm Collins: university research approved by one of the wokes. That

Simone Collins: doesn’t mean it’s not

Malcolm Collins: that.

Simone Collins: Come on, come on. No, no, no. Oh, okay. Just let’s get through it. Let’s white knuckle it.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. And then they say these habits plant the seed of the idea that a child has a right to say what happens to their body.

And, and it is taking us to a blog family, how good diaper changes tells babies about the [00:19:00] world. But anyway, before I, I, I go to that. Then of course, what’s the next most important thing while you’re giving the baby the creepy diaper change? It’s be kind to yourself. Of course, some nappy changes that need to be more rushed are in the odd place.

Perhaps you are late for work or you need to pull over to the side of the road road to do so in an urgent position. The habits we outline above may seem to add more work to the already demanding parental load. So try to do them as often as possible and be kind to yourself. If every nappy change isn’t perfect for moments of connection, you’re a supporting a small child.

After all, use the proper terms. While you’re doing the nappy change. Use the correct anatomical terms. Oh, no. Vulva, penis, and anus. No,

Simone Collins: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We have euphemisms for that. Like I don’t pretend to be the best potty trainer or talk about private [00:20:00] parts person with our kids, and I will say that I’ve recently learned things from other people.

Like from our neighbors, we learned about the words Doty and flippy. And I think that that’s great and

Malcolm Collins: is for boys and doty is for girls. Yeah.

Simone Collins: And you know what, that is what we call That’s right. It’s

Malcolm Collins: completely non sexualized. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I think it works better for, for you know, the morphological traits that children have as opposed to like

Simone Collins: a dog.

Maybe a great word for it. Why on earth would you call it anything else? Why would you call it a vulva like that? Yeah. Doty sounds way better. I, yeah. There’s honestly like no word for, there’s no word for the thing. Be betwixt, the ladies and others that I think is fun. But the

Malcolm Collins: reason, the reason why I think it’s important to do this to, to have these other words is as adults, sexual organs are inherently sexualized, was in our mental context.

And they’re going, they’re mean to be.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And they’re going to be for children as they learn these adult [00:21:00] words. Right. Because that’s the context they’re going to learn them in, right? Like mm-hmm. That’s the context they are spoken of in society. That’s the context that they are 99.99999% of the time when somebody is talking about one of them.

Because people are very sexual beings as adults is going to be in a sexualized context. And so to desexualize them in the way that you’re directing with them because they are not sexual organs for children. They’re

Simone Collins: body

Malcolm Collins: parts. Yeah. I mean, well

Simone Collins: especially ‘cause like you pee out of. I mean, for men, you, you pee out of one like, it, it doesn’t ha like it.

You spend, the men’s vast majority of interactions or uses of their IES is for urination, for eliminating liquid waste. You know, like it’s not, yeah. It, so, so, you know, if, if, if 99% of your usage of a, a body part is, is about elimination, why is your first thing to do to sexualize it? That is so weird. Right.

Malcolm Collins: But it makes sense in their world. Framework. Remember, in their world framework, like [00:22:00] everything is sexualized to an extent because that’s one of the core things of identity, like what you are turned on by most. Yeah. For example, you know, if it, if it’s same sex interactions, if it’s if know furries, if it’s something else that’s like a huge core part of your identity, right?

Which we would argue it’s a fairly trivial part of your identity. And, and, and I think that that is why they sexualize things so early. And so it, it goes on to say in regards to that, like, it knows the way we’re gonna react. It says parents may feel uncomfortable doing this and think more childish names should be used, but this keeps children safe.

That means they can inform trusted adults about their experiences with all the people who care for them. That is. I if the kids have a word for it, childish or not, they can express it to you. Right. They do not need the sexualized term for it. Like, it is weird that you are saying that and that makes you one of the adults, like if a kid came to me and he immediately knew one of these words, that could be a big red flag to me that somebody was having inappropriate conversations with [00:23:00] them.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. We would be worried, wouldn’t we?

Malcolm Collins: And so it actually gives you additional warning when something bad is happening

Simone Collins: and no, we’re, we are not like early colonial Quakers where when women would go see doctors, anything that was between like their head and their knees was like my stomach. They, they, you know, they, they would never talk about those things.

I think that’s a problem too. Like you have to be able to talk about body parts and we use euphemisms for them. But like, you know, so, so we’re not saying, don’t talk about, we’re not saying don’t pretend it’s there. We’re not, and, and it’s, we mentioned earlier, like our whole house is like. I mean, we live in a really old house too, so like private bathrooms aren’t exactly a thing.

They’re just fricking toilets everywhere. Yeah. Oh, so like no one, no one believes in privacy or boundaries or anything. And like there’s no, no concept of like, oh, except, no, it’s not, no, no one, no one’s nervous about nudity though. They are concerned about dressing properly around people because at first I was like, oh, like though Torsten [00:24:00] always takes off his clothes and all of our kids do at a, when we had a birthday party after he went to the bathroom, but his costume wasn’t on properly, he was like really self-conscious about that.

So I know he knows the difference. Like he wants to properly dressed, he just doesn’t care if people see. So yeah, I don’t know. Like, I think this is another, another instance in which the left is way too, or like the urban monoculture, I should say, is way too in its head. Like it overthinks. Well, it’s not

Malcolm Collins: in its head.

I mean, I think they’re hurting kids. So another thing that they talk about in this article, and I won’t go into it a lot, is in that you shouldn’t kiss or hug your kids without consent. And I also think that this is really messed up. If you’ve actually had toddler kids and you’ve had a lot of them, because not all toddlers are like this.

Some of our kids, they don’t care about being kissed. But other of our kids, they like to put up a whole fight about being kissed or hugged and they want to be kissed or hugged. It’s just a game for them, right? Like people are like this. They, they have fun being playfully bratty in a non-sexual [00:25:00] context, right?

Like and yeah, like we have

Simone Collins: one kid who will literally, even though they want something, I’ll be like, do you want a cookie? No. Yes. But everything has to start with no, no, no. Yes, yes.

Malcolm Collins: One of my favorites with Whippy that came up with our kids was one of my kids, we moved him to the, the older kid seat, you know, like the, the booster seat.

And I was like, okay, you’re, you’re in the booster seat now. And he goes, oh, it’s because my F’s bigger.

Simone Collins: Are you serious? Oh God. I mean, that’s, that is the size of the thing that we it matters, I guess some measurement. Gotta get out there. I was gonna say calipers, but what would you even use to measure a Whoopi?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So to measure and stick, we can go over more of this. We, we’ve got one here. This is early childhood. Australia nappy changes and toilet [00:26:00] learning to go into like just a, a, a, a medium part of this recon, contextual recontextualizing nappy changes and toilet key times as learning requires educators to facilitate opportunities for children to be actively involved, this supports children to learn how to lead their toilet experiences independently in the future.

Your toilet

Simone Collins: experience, it’s very weird. Wow. I mean, I, I think it’s a toilet experience When you have one of those really nice Japanese toto toilets and you get to push the buttons and stuff, that is toilet experience. I’ll support that.

Malcolm Collins: This is, this is very strange language to me here. It’s important for toileting to be an autonomous activity led by the child and not a process that families or educators accelerate through training.

Ble etal 2019. Why? Well, yeah,

Simone Collins: that’s su because first off, if you are [00:27:00] enjoying the process of changing your kids’ diapers to the extent where you are not dying to get them potty trained, I’m questioning you. But like our kids were not even close to getting potty trained until we started bribery. And every, like, it was both their, their, their, they were in daycare at the time, so their daycare teachers and their a BA therapists.

‘cause these were our older, already diagnosed with, diagnosed with autism. Kids were like, yeah, bribery, marshmallows works every bribery. Yeah. That’s what you do. Bri ‘em, yeah. Or grease payments, if you will.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, you’re using your power of systemic privilege over the child and power over them to, because they don’t have access to resources.

This is what’s like financial abuse, but nutritional abuse,

Simone Collins: systemic privilege of marsh, right?

Malcolm Collins: Saying, I’ll only, I’ll only give you access to your allowances if you do, and YI only give you access to marsh systemic

Simone Collins: to the defecation box. Right. We’ve recently been having a lot of conversations about what we do to things that defecate in the wrong [00:28:00] place in our house because I’ve, we live in a very old house that has a lot of holes into the outside and there’s a lot of food in our house and also a lot of kids that produce crumbs.

So what do we have? Mice? Of course. So I’ve been killing the mice. A lot of mice. And the kids like to see the mice, and then we talk about why, ‘cause the mice are so cute and fluffy and soft, as Octavian likes to point out. He cried yesterday. When he saw it, he was like, I wanna see it. And then he started crying and I’m like, you asked to see it.

He’s like, why did it have to die? And I’m like, because it poops, it eats our food and it poops on the table and it poops in our food and it ruins things. And he’s like, oh, I’ll teach it to not poop. I’ll teach it to poop in the potty. And he understood because I’m like, well, what happens? This one poops in the wrong place in my house?

And and he’s like, you kill them. And I’m like, that’s right Octavian. That is how you raise kids. This, this is how you have potty conversations. Did you say what’s gonna happen if you poop in the wrong place? That that’s the implied insinuation and all of our kids understand it. Torsten gets it. I can’t [00:29:00] remember one of, one of our kids, only one of our kids though.

No, it was Torsten. We just decided to poop on the floor. I think it was Torsten. One of our kids did it intentionally and like proudly walked into the room and was like,

Malcolm Collins: oh my God. Here’s another line from this one. Okay. Through. A attuned routine experiences children feel safe and are encouraged to stay present in the moment.

They learn that educators listen carefully to what they say and pay attention to verbal and nonverbal cues you.

Simone Collins: So it’s not even about like that euphoric moment where like you really had to go to the bathroom and you’re finally relieving yourself. It’s the, the euphoria in pleasing your superiors.

Malcolm Collins: So this, this was written by a Dr.

Kathleen Bussy, an infant and toddler specialist academic from New Zealand.

Simone Collins: What is it with, why, why in Oceania are there all [00:30:00] these, these potty perverts?

Malcolm Collins: What’s going on? There’s a lot of weird stuff in Australia, at New Zealand, if I’m gonna be honest. In regards to like, just about everything that I’ve seen,

Simone Collins: stop work with me here, right?

So like around Utah. There’s a lot of interest in like polygamy and like in the Appalachian region. There’s like more interest in vre, right? Like the ultimate sport hunting humans. What if like the unique evolved fetish in Oceania is, is pet potty stuff?

Malcolm Collins: I don’t know. Well, they, the other thing I’ve seen uniquely there is furry stuff.

There’s a lot of

Simone Collins: correlation. I’m just saying ‘cause it’s a little weird, isn’t it? A little convenient that all these, it’s a little

Malcolm Collins: weird. That it’s a lot of,

Simone Collins: but also like we’ve seen in all these other instances, just like these clusters of sexual proclivities. I’m just, I’m just saying [00:31:00] arousal pathways not even sexual.

Just like I love talking about diapers. I love the ritual of talking about the consent of bathrooms. I wonder if these, you got another one here. Science and academia wearing diapers and having someone else change their diapers for science.

Malcolm Collins: So this, this blog called Scary Mommy. She Goes, last year I was on Facebook and I saw one of my friends talking about an article he had read on teaching babies consent by asking them permission before changing their diaper.

Mm-hmm. And then she goes on. My friend, like many others, including myself at first thought this concept that’s pretty out there to say the least so, you know, right. Like, she understands it’s crazy. Then she goes down the rabbit hole. So to skip ahead of it, okay. She explained that even though babies cannot verbally give consent, she believed it was important to establish a quote unquote culture of consent within the family from birth.

Obviously, the word consent is used to imply that there is anything. Obviously the word consent is not used to imply that there’s [00:32:00] anything sexual happening about diaper changes, but the expert points out the importance of using consent language and making eye contact to teach our kids even from a young page that we are present, that we acknowledge them, that they are included in the process.

Wait, are you supposed

Simone Collins: to make eye contact while changing diapers per their view? That’s extra creepy. What? No. Imagine. Imagine if someone were changing your diaper and they made eye contact while they did it.

Malcolm Collins: But why, why any of these things? Why does the child need to feel your present? Like actually I, I’d say a lot of time when I, well, I dunno, I

Simone Collins: so dogs when they’re taking a, a dump outside, well, if you’re right by them, you know that they’re looking at you.

They’re, they’re, you know, they’re checking, they’re vulnerable. They wanna know you got their back.

Malcolm Collins: Right. I don’t think that that’s what she means. I think she means it in like a hippie way. Like being present in yourself. And that you acknowledge them. Do you, do you need to [00:33:00] acknowledge your kid taking a dump?

I, I

Simone Collins: don’t wanna be nothing that will make me feel more acknowledged than someone wiping my butt. And I mean, I can say this having been, you know, like every 18 months I get hospitalized and someone puts a catheter in me and then they have to take it out. Like people, like I’ve had, I’ve had diaper changing equivalent experiences, right?

Like. And I’m glad they don’t make eye contact and I’m glad that I’m not in the moment when that happens,

Malcolm Collins: you’re not like, okay, now I need you to, we need to have this be a joint experience here.

Simone Collins: Yeah, man. Like I always try to give them to take the catheter out before all the woozy drugs fully wear off.

‘cause I don’t really wanna be all there when that happens. Like, I, I just can’t,

Malcolm Collins: Okay, hold on. I guess it gets while we’re here. In short, the point of having a dialogue with our babies during diaper changes and making eye contact with them is to show them respect and to teach them that they deserve it.

I,

Simone Collins: no, no, no, no, [00:34:00] no, no. For me, this is like, oh, you gotta smile, smile. But then like, what, what is it? Gorillas, when they like bear their teeth, it’s a sign of like aggression. Like that. I, I feel like making eye contact with someone in that kind of intimate moment, especially, you know, if you are doing this with a squirming child and holding them down like that is.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, hold on. It gets weirder because this one compares it to being old and says this is the way she’d want to be treated as an old person. Oh,

Simone Collins: no. Confirmed. A BDL confirmed A BDL confirmed. She’s in it. She’s in it. She’d be a crinkler if she’s not already. And you know what, there are a lot of very successful furries.

Like I, I’ve, I’ve been following a lot of furry subreddits recently. ‘Cause like, you know, we wanna like advertise to them. Well, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: furries are like fine. Like furries. No.

Simone Collins: Yeah. The point, the exact point I’m making is like, there’s some of the more popular furry clips that I saw recently, like on, on furry subreddits is people interviewing furries at a conferred convention.

And they’re like, well, what do you do for work? And it’s like, oh, I’m an anesthesiologist, I’m a [00:35:00] professor, I am like all these things, all these very like. You are an educated, competent person whose financial affairs are in order ‘cause they kind of have to be forgetting a $16,000 fur suit. Like these are cool based people who understand themselves.

I think maybe her problem is she doesn’t know she’s an ab BDL And also, I’m not saying offers are ADLs. I’ll read it and you can

Malcolm Collins: tell me your thoughts. Okay. So, envision being extremely old, so old that you have become very sick and you have lost your ability to care for yourself or even talk, you completely rely on someone to be your caregiver baby.

No, you’re relying

Simone Collins: on, on a, a grok robot Thank to changing your

Malcolm Collins: adult diaper. Now hold on, hold on. I’m not done. Imagine how it would feel to go through all those processes with no dialogue and no information about what was about to happen. None or very little eye contact, but instead of being moved and or held down like a doll, for me that personally sounds like a horror movie.

I would [00:36:00] want to have an idea of what was coming next. So what I love about this is tell on yourself

Simone Collins: without telling on yourself. Lady.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Just so you know, it sounds like a horror movie to me that I’m like, locked in and can’t move, and I’ve got this assistant who like stares at me in the eyes while they’re changing my diapers.

Simone Collins: I’m,

Malcolm Collins: I’m gonna change your diapers now. I’m very present in the moment, and you’re very acknowledged. I’m gonna begin now. Let’s talk about your penis and, oh, God,

Simone Collins: no. I mean like, oh my God, yes.

Worst nightmare. Worst nightmare. Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, that happens to people though. There’s real people stuck in situations like that, you know, like,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I thank goodness that most of them are like, you know, it’s an immigrant who barely speaks English, who would never do that to you because they, they understand one, that that would be a miserable experience for everyone involved. They’re, they’re disassociating in a very proactive and [00:37:00] productive way as they’re doing it.

And so, are you all right that, that is how it’s done? That’s how we always do it. That’s how we have done it, and that’s how we will continue to do it. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So, or maybe, you

Simone Collins: know, there’s also just the base Chinese model which is interesting where, and I remember seeing this when I traveled through China.

Just kids are walking around with nothing. They’re just free balling it. Even like the little chili, it’s coming

Malcolm Collins: to The Bahamas too.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Where

Malcolm Collins: I live down there, see, it’s coming in a lot of places. It

Simone Collins: just solves the problem. There is no conversation because the kid just, I don’t know, like they go somewhere, they got pot, they like, they potty trained really early as a result.

But like,

Malcolm Collins: I know, I, what I’ve noticed is a lot of ‘em just go outside. Because a lot of this is in, in places where you can, yeah. Where you can just

Simone Collins: kinda wander outside and, and yeah. Do your thing. Yeah. It works. I mean, so I mean, if, if this is really your issue, talk about autonomy, right? Talk about self-empowerment.

Here’s an article from the adult, adult out of the conversation. It’s the free bleeding of, of toddler or diaper changes.

Malcolm Collins: Here’s an article for Motherly. It’s never too early to teach kids about consent. These books can help and it [00:38:00] goes over a bunch of books. And in one part it says, what is body autonomy?

Let’s talk about boundaries, consent, and respect. In its simplest form, consent is giving permission for something to happen. Little feminist, we love the term, my body is mine. We aim to give parents and caregivers the tools to create positive habits around bodily autonomy, not assuming consent from children and teaching that kids have a right to decide what happens to their bodies.

Oh, I love this. They talk about raising empathetic body positive kids. We want our kids to understand that their body is their own and the importance of respecting each other’s bodies and boundaries. It, it literally sounds like Camp Chippewa from the the does. You’re right. It sounds like you, it sounds.

Horrifying to me, I have always identified so much was the Adams family, and never more than in this moment in terms of like child rearing. [00:39:00] We totally have to do an episode on the Adams family episode on school and like, just got so many great lines and it’s from the original Adams family. It’s

Simone Collins: delightful.

Did you watch it after I shared some clips with you?

Malcolm Collins: No, I haven’t. I haven’t seen the whole thing yet, so, no.

Simone Collins: It’s, it’s so fun. They had the,

Malcolm Collins: I, I saw the one that you sent me where they were like, well, you know, your kids were going through all this at school and like, it may not be right for, for your kids, but like, what about all the other kids?

And then he’s like, what about all the other kids? Like he decides he needs to rescue all the kids from school. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Oh my God. Here’s a weird one. It’s an article why I don’t make my kids Apologize by Motherly.

Simone Collins: What? I mean, I kind of get it ‘cause actions speak louder than words. Well,

Malcolm Collins: hold on. No, no, no, no, no. It’s worse than that. So it starts, do my children have to share? No. Do my children have to apologize?

Nope. [00:40:00] Do I suggest that they say the quote unquote magic word again? No. Base.

Simone Collins: Just if you want it, take it. If they don’t give it to you, punch them. This woman that, that is,

Malcolm Collins: this is she’s raising like. And I love it monsters. And, and what I love is there were other parents, and I was gonna go into this in more detail where there was some moms that tried to raise their kids this way and they realized it was a horrible thing.

So here’s a, a post from one of them. I validated it. Every emotion processed, every feeling extensively explained every boundary. Oh. Compromised on saying avoided harsh punishments. I thought I was doing it right. Then my kids got older and I started seeing the results in real time. Mm-hmm. One kid became anxious about everything, even choosing a snack.

Mm-hmm. Insecure in their abilities, entitled, everything’s set for debate, emotionally disregulated outbursts constantly. Mm-hmm. The other kid became too [00:41:00] easy, people pleasing, suppressed real feelings, absorbed everyone’s emotions withdrawn. I thought I was just quote unquote being a teenager. It wasn’t, or I thought it was just mm-hmm.

I cried a lot. I had tried so hard to do everything right, to do things different from what I had growing up. Here’s what I realized this is like how they, they, they screwed up their kids. Right,

Simone Collins: right. But she’s talking, you can see also, I mean, not to bring in the whole nature versus nurture thing, but like she’s really a person who has anxiety or like depression issues, emotional regulation problems.

Yeah.

Was it any surprise that, I mean, it probably, regardless of any approach she would’ve taken, her kids would’ve been emotionally dysregulated. ‘cause it’s fairly clear from even this short excerpt that she herself is emotionally dysregulated.

Malcolm Collins: She, she said she shifted to authoritative parenting with high structure.

Simone Collins: It’s probably not gonna change anything because her kids are genetically wired that way. I don’t know how to say, hold

Malcolm Collins: on, hold on. So she shifted to [00:42:00] authoritative parenting. Okay. Has clear boundaries, consistent limits and natural consequences, which is what we do, right? Yeah. And she said the shift happened faster than she expected.

Oh. She saw less anxiety over decisions, more confidence to try new things, less negotiating and entitlement Aw and better regulation.

Simone Collins: Well, that’s great. Now she just needs to do that for herself. But that would involve leaving whatever progressive academic circle she works in.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, this, this woman is just like a mom.

And she, she now says that she can spot wi in five minutes when kids were raised by gentle parents. She says these kids are anxious about everything, making simple choices, saying how they really feel handling any disappointment, setting their own boundaries. And that’s because parents emotionally charge individual, like mistakes the kids make and everything like that.

Like everything is overly emotional when you remove all of the, you know, just slap him, knock it off. Y your little, you know, I’m gonna go do my own [00:43:00] thing. That’s what I was called growing up a little s**t. I don’t even know if you’re allowed to do that anymore. That is by the way an Appalachian name.

Even in the, the from the greater Appalachian tradition of what they called kids historically. They integrated

Simone Collins: it. Yeah, I think, I think it was innovated in. The American colonies by the, the Appalachian, the Greater Appalachian diaspora.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I, I’m afraid to call my kids little s***s ‘cause I’m afraid of like a news team hearing it.

But it is.

Simone Collins: Well, and we’re just a, we’re trying not to use bad words around them just in general. But it, it’s, it’s a bummer. ‘cause it’s, you know, it’s part of your,

Malcolm Collins: well, the point being is, is what’s going through my head emotionally. Just like knock it off you a little s**t. You know, like that. And, and with them, they’re, they’re validating the emotions.

They’re validating even the bad behavior by getting, you know, all up about it. Right. And it leads to the kids over emotionalizing everything. And our kids just like, do not do that at all. Like, we have autistic kids, but we do not have anxious kids. And I think our kids would be hyper prone to this sort of behavior if it, we [00:44:00] validated.

Simone Collins: Gosh, yeah. It, it didn’t occur to me just how lucky we are, that our kids aren’t anxious.

Malcolm Collins: They really don’t

Simone Collins: seem to dread anything.

Malcolm Collins: No. They love playing. They love pushing each other around. They love doing dangerous things. Too much.

Simone Collins: Too

Malcolm Collins: much. I did it to the kid. I jumped off the, the, the third story. But I know like in

Simone Collins: the end as much as like I complained about our kids risky behavior, you were 10 times worse.

So it’s fine.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: guess

Malcolm Collins: I, I mean I, I do get worried about them sometimes accidentally doing some of the things that I did like, okay, here’s an example. You, you should, you should warn your kids against this. The, the mattress on the stairwell goes way faster than you would think it goes. Did you ever try a mattress on a stairwell?

Simone Collins: No. I did a sleeping bag and you know, that allows your butt to fall on each step’s. Hurts a lot, but you know, you do go down fairly fast and it’s fun.

The mattress [00:45:00] just

Malcolm Collins: so far, when did you do that? See, we gotta warn our kids about that. ‘cause that’s that one’s coming up. Oh God. But she says when she talks about what digital parents actually do, they say they turn validation into overprocessing, share adult problems their kids can’t handle, avoid conflict.

Instead of teaching resilience, make children responsible for family emotions. The result, anxious people, pleasing kids who monitor your feelings instead of expressing their own.

Simone Collins: Well, to be fair, I didn’t expect it to go in that direction that they, like I didn’t obsessed with what you think.

Malcolm Collins: No, because you, that’s what you’re doing.

You’re heightening your own, you’re, you’re telling the kids that they should be monitoring your emotional state. You’re being like, look at how what you are doing is making me feel right. Mm-hmm. Like your actual child play behavior where they’re playing like a little pack of wolves, right? Mm-hmm. They’re playing like a sanitized whatever.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They’re in some terrifying social experiment anyway. Oh gosh. [00:46:00] Thank you for being a, a low stress based parent. It’s great parenting. You are higher

Malcolm Collins: stress than I am. And I had to tell you, knock it off sometimes. But I

Simone Collins: just think that there’s something instinctual about mothers and it really hit me when I watched around this, this past holiday home alone.

Alone where like the rest of the family, Kevin McAllister, like an 8-year-old kid or something, is left home alone. His family goes to Paris without him. And they realize they have to go back and get him ‘cause they left him home. And the mother goes through the most painful process of going home, driving people, spending tons of money, begging, writing in a road trip with some kind of poka band.

And she gets home ultimately like five minutes before the rest of the family that just took the next available flight that was direct.

Malcolm Collins: And that’s you, you, you overwork for every part of parenting and then gets.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: five minutes earlier, right? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Like she added like 10 years to her life in that experiment in [00:47:00] experience, and everyone else just did the normal reasonable thing.

But I feel like that, that was in the movie and it was meaningful because it really it, it encapsulates the plight of the mother where the mother without consent or willingness feels this level of burden and concern and inability to restrain herself in going above and beyond for her kids. Even when it, she logically understands that it doesn’t help.

But I would say it’s a double-edged sword as much as like the weird hormonal shift that makes me love our kids. And that makes me do insane things that aren’t actually helpful, but like I just feel like I have to do them for our kids is, can be damaging. Like Tex just had the worst diaper blowout of his life so far, and there was poop everywhere.

And the, the whole room still smells intensely of it. But you know what it smells like to me, smells like buttered [00:48:00] popcorn.

It

smells great.

Really, because your brain is, I love the

smell of my child’s poop. It smells great. It’s wonderful. I’m, I’m like, it doesn’t smell that way to

Malcolm Collins: me, by the way, but male, male brains do rewire.

No, but

Simone Collins: then that’s the, that’s the point I’m making is it’s a double-edged sword. Like the same weird hormonal brainwashing that has taken me over, which we didn’t like. I thought I wasn’t gonna love our kids, right? Like, I had no maternal instincts. The same thing that makes me do all this stupid stuff where I fuss over them and I have to braid our girls’ hair.

And you’re like, don’t do it. It’s a waste of time. And I’m like, I have to, I have to get their hair, their clothes just so, and I want them all bundled up and warm and all these things, right? You’re like, they don’t need it. It’s fine. And I have to do it. You’re like, you’re

Malcolm Collins: like, why isn’t anyone wearing pants?

And I, but you,

Simone Collins: you can’t tolerate the smell of their, their poops. And for some reason, and this doesn’t happen to everyone, but it does happen to some people, like at least especially younger kids, poops. Smell. Fantastic.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, I’ve heard, and, and, and and children’s heads, like [00:49:00] women really like the smell of

Simone Collins: No.

You, you can smell baby’s heads. I, I actually can’t smell that one. Oh really? And I, I’m, I’m very, I bet there’s some kind of gene, like, you know how there’s like a gene where like you won’t taste the bitterness in broccoli and you can see this new 23 me and stuff. Like, oh, you don’t taste bitterness and this is why you can eat pig slop.

And things like that. Right. But, and, and you, you actually, I think you have the gene and I don’t, which is maybe one reason why I eat the lop I eat and you don’t. And why I like unsweetened chocolate and all these other things. ‘cause I literally don’t taste some element of bitter that you do. But I do think that there’s some gene that, that has to do with like, being able to smell some kind of pheromone or chemical that infants release from their head.

Malcolm Collins: I wouldn’t be surprised at all. Yeah. ‘

Simone Collins: cause you smell it right? And your mom smelled it.

Malcolm Collins: I smell it. I’m not like intensely drawn to it, but it’s definitely a different and pleasant smell.

Simone Collins: That’s weird. I, I, and I mean, I would tell you right, if I’m telling you the embarrassing details of their poop, smell

Malcolm Collins: it, it smells like talcum [00:50:00] powder is what it smells like.

What?

Simone Collins: Well, I’m glad I smell the poop instead because one, there’s a lot more poop and, well, I guess you’re always around the babies, but I, I like, I really like butter popcorn, so it works out

Malcolm Collins: well. Yeah. There’s other smells that like, smell fantastic. And you’re supposed to like, gasoline smells fantastic.

Oh,

Simone Collins: yes.

Malcolm Collins: And everyone pretends like it’s this horrible smell and I’m like,

Simone Collins: no,

no. Oh, I bet people have made gasoline scented candles, which are probably really bad for you. But I hope they’ve nailed it.

Malcolm Collins: That would be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Gasoline. It would be better than having gasoline, so. You can get them in Marvel.

The, they have like a turn base game that you can get it as a gift. Like diesel candles, jet fuel candles was another one. You know, like really? Yeah. So I thought, you know, that, that, that it must exist somewhere if it exists in video games. Right.

Simone Collins: Oh, that’s great. Well, I didn’t expect to be talking about [00:51:00] this but I love our conversation so much.

And speaking of buttered popcorn, what would you like for dinner?

Bullock?

Malcolm Collins: No, I’m, I’m, I’m not feeling well at all. I want something really easy on the stomach. Pumpkin soup po. Do we have pesto?

Simone Collins: No.

Malcolm Collins: How did we get through it so fast? I thought we got some more and we had it one night.

Simone Collins: So I made from Thai basil, like I have, I have cubes of.

Of minced Thai basil and olive oil that I can thaw and saute with noodles. So we have elbows that I, that I made last night. So we, we have noodles and I can saute noodles and pesto for you if you want.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, wow. That could be pretty good actually.

Simone Collins: I’ll I’ll thaw out one of the cubes of the Thai basil.

Malcolm Collins: Hold on. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m thinking here. Is this gonna be, is this gonna be like, do I want with like, or

Simone Collins: would you prefer, because you can also have pumpkin soup with Hawaiian bun and American cheese like you’ve been eating recently.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go for more pumpkin soup, especially if you can get [00:52:00] another one of the chicken ones.

Simone Collins: I think we have some more of those. Yeah. So chicken, pumpkin soup, Hawaiian bun with cheese, or not

Malcolm Collins: without cheese. Open face, toasted.

Simone Collins: Oh, you just want a plain Hawaiian bun.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And then I’ll scoop it in the soup and it’ll taste really good.

Simone Collins: Ah, scooper super. Yeah, fine. All right.

Malcolm Collins: The pizza you made yesterday was a little undercooked.

It wasn’t very crispy, so just keep in mind whatever you can do to.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. Yeah, I, yeah, it’s a, it’s difficult because I, I consider I’m not

giving

feedback while I am doing the kids’ baths and then like the, the timing, you know, it’s either burnt or it’s not coached well enough because I’m like in between telling the kids off you.

Okay. Do you want me to, I can just bring dinner to your room so you can just relax. You want me to go? No, no coming down. Why? Like, is it actually doing you any favors?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I get to spend time with you and the kids.

Simone Collins: I can send one of the kids up to hang out with you after.

Malcolm Collins: No, that’s a good idea actually.

Yeah. But do you feel worse when I don’t spend the night with you? [00:53:00]

Simone Collins: Not if I think you’re uncomfortable. So I just want you to be comfortable. So shall I do that? And then I can send any kid if you’re, whichever kid is being the nicest, whichever kid can sense, will send to hang out with you and watch anime, so.

Sounds good.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. What, what episode do you wanna rent tomorrow? This one or the other one?

Simone Collins: I could go with either.

Malcolm Collins: Look, it was yours. I thought yours was really fascinating.

Simone Collins: I’m so glad. ‘cause at first I thought it was gonna be one of those where were like, no one wants to hear this, blah, blah, blah.

And then No, what you wanna

Malcolm Collins: make the title card is my wife is dissociating. And my wife,

Simone Collins: my wife is in a state of perpetual dissociation.

Malcolm Collins: And then you’re gonna be like, I’m not here. I’m not dealing with this. I

Simone Collins: have to see if like any of the title card photos I’ve taken of myself could like, work for this.

Just be being like, oh. So no. And then you

Malcolm Collins: could, you could round yourself with kids, like have all the, the pictures of the kids [00:54:00]

Simone Collins: being

Malcolm Collins: crazy. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Or maybe I can just include like. Another image of me. So it looks like, I’m think seeing myself from a distance. I’m not sure. Well, I’ll, I’ll figure it out in my morning days like I always do.

Sorry. Sorry, I do have

Malcolm Collins: a sore throat or something. So that’s also why I’m like, Hey, maybe I shouldn’t go down with her.

Simone Collins: Just, just, just relax. Just relax In your room. I will bring you a toasted Hawaiian bun. One or two.

Malcolm Collins: Two. Do you think it’s like maybe really dry and that’s why I have it and I’m not actually like sick.

I can

Simone Collins: put a humidifier in your room, scent it or not. Would you like sense? Yes, I’d like

Malcolm Collins: a scented humidifier. That is the level of,

Simone Collins: You’re, you’re making

Malcolm Collins: me feel so luxurious as scented humidifier and I’ll work on clearing out all the cardboard. That would be nice.

Simone Collins: No, what we’re gonna do is on tomorrow.

Ugh. But the first of, I have to figure out when trash pickup is. But we do it together. I’m trash

Malcolm Collins: right now, so I was just gonna be taking out trashing. Oh, I should clean up my room a bit.

Simone Collins: I thought you were [00:55:00] gonna rest

Malcolm Collins: well. Yeah, but because I got the time to rest now I’ve also got the time to clean up.

Simone Collins: Okay, well if you’re gonna clean up, would you mind then ferrying the kids to the kitchen so I don’t have to go out?

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, sure. Where, when, when do I pick them up? Where do I get them?

Simone Collins: Anytime now I’m ready to take them.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, so what, what do I do? Like I call them and I say,

Simone Collins: yeah, just call, call Stacy and say you’re ready to come.

Pick up the kids and they can start getting like their shoes on and send them down and then, okay, I’ll make their way over. Are you sure though? Because trash day is not, is is kind of messed up, I think because of the holiday. And

Malcolm Collins: I’m sure if it makes your life easier because you’re making my life easier I have to do it because you’re, I mean, it’s

Simone Collins: windy, so I’m a little worried that it’s just gonna be like blown all over.

The,

Malcolm Collins: it’s fine. The, the, the put ‘em in the bin. Okay.

Simone Collins: Okay. It, what would mean a lot to me is if you ferried the kids to the, to the kitchen for dinner. And [00:56:00] also if you could see, I’m checking right now to see if the console has been I have a package. Yes, there is a package outside our fence that I’d really love for you to bring in.

And then I will bring your dinner to you and you can relax and do nothing after that if that works for you. We have a deal. We have a

Malcolm Collins: deal. A

Simone Collins: deal, a deal. Our kids love making deals.

Malcolm Collins: This is how I force my wife into these horrible, degrading conditions. She lives in

Simone Collins: lives What? By like handling trash and Sub-Zero conditions.

But you’re letting me do it. Oh, I’m letting you. Mm-hmm. What a privilege.

Malcolm Collins: I’ll be reading my career romance manga. So like, you don’t even need to worry.

Simone Collins: You must see what the sociopathic Empress does next. Who will she feed to the dogs? I love it.

Malcolm Collins: I want more evil. I do not like the, the, the ones where they turn good.

I like them to stay a bit evil. This is, this is what I’m here for. [00:57:00] The vengeance. Not, not even evil, because she’s not like, she’s just really cruel to people who were cruel to her before the timeline.

Simone Collins: She’s just effective. Okay. She just, she she’s effective. She right. She, she’s the finisher. I like it.

A

Malcolm Collins: finisher. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: she like mildly regrets in the last life that she had, one of her friend’s tongues ripped out and I was like, you are intense that you’re just like, yeah, that was probably not my best move.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Think there are much better things to remove.

Malcolm Collins: Have a good one, Simone. Love you, Malcolm.

Love you

Simone Collins: too. Mm. You. Are you reading Korean Manga? Of course. It’s important that I

Malcolm Collins: understand it’s your stories. You need them villainous.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: This is, so this is the good one. This is one where the main characters truly sociopathic and, and I love those. Yeah. They’re really a villainous. She I’m

Simone Collins: actually a villainous, not just a, a victim.

Well, one

Malcolm Collins: of, one of the [00:58:00] maids who she said she’d, she’d protect if they betrayed someone she fed to dogs. And the other maid thought she was so nice because they thought that she had helped the maid escape rather than pointlessly. After her story was basically done, well fed her to wolves. Okay. And I’m like, yeah, that’s what I’m looking for to villainous.

Okay. I want a wife who does not let stuff slide. You know, you gotta, you gotta tie up all the loose ends. I really, I really see it wouldn’t work in our household perspective on things,

Simone Collins: professor. We’d have to like cook the human meat. Would not be. He doesn’t meat.

Horrible.

Yeah. But because I, you know, like there’ve been some, some nights where I’m like, oh, this is an amazing cut of meat.

Like, it’s really like, like you could even eat it as we were recently gifted, like incredibly high quality meat that we could have probably eaten raw, certain cuts of it. And I, I shared one with her and she was like, what is this? Like, why is this not sauteed in butter? Excuse me. She’s so funny. And then I went to take it away and she’s like, no, [00:59:00] no, no, it’s fine, it’s fine.

She’s so, you’re the wackiest

and

smacky. This is so thematic, Malcolm. And I’m like, so relieved. ‘cause for the past four days, Tex has been super constipated. Like to the point where he, he hasn’t been eating because there’s no room. And then he’ll like get really irritable every two hours. And I’m like getting up all night to.

Because normally he’d be kind of sleeping through the night at this point. But yeah, I just, then this morning there were tiny little, tiny little poops and I was like, uhoh, this is like right before Mountain Vesuvius came, you know, like it blew up, it like little earthquakes and stuff. And it was like, what’s going on?

Huh? And then it happened. The big one, it hit it was. All the way up his back almost to his neck. Almost to his neck. Oh my God. Yeah. It, it blew, he blew. But now he will hopefully be able to, to sleep at night and eat again. And he’s less, I was doing all the things I was doing, the, the stomach massages, the leg, the leg thingies and the, you know, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t, [01:00:00] well, you know what’s up?

Malcolm Collins: You, you’re such a good mother. Look, look at him. He’s still alive. I’m, I’m shocked. He’s been too. Yeah, it was touch and go there in the early days.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, he still has a big divot in his chest from where the tube was in. It makes me so sad every time. It makes me so sad, sir. But I didn’t ask for your consent.

I just did it.

Malcolm Collins: She just saved your life, so that’s horrible. Yeah.

Simone Collins: No, it, to change his diaper just now since that’s what we’re talking about. Right. Anyway, what are we talking about? Yeah. Bring, bring, bring it home.

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