Building Machines That Care

Joscha Bach is a cognitive scientist, AI researcher, and philosopher of mind whose work has shaped how we think about synthetic consciousness and the architecture of thought itself.

He developed the MicroPsi cognitive architecture, has held research roles at MIT and Harvard, and just co-founded the California Institute of Machine Consciousness with Karl Friston — a lab dedicated to building minds that know they exist.

Expect to learn how emotions are compressed value functions for simulated agents, how brains create recursive world models to predict and control experience, why the self might just be a stabilizing hallucination, how synthetic minds could surpass biological ones, why Joscha sees spirits as information processes, and how consciousness might emerge anywhere complex systems learn to model themselves.

We also explore the implications of Michael Levin’s work, the ethics of synthetic selves, why nature is already computational, and what’s truly at the bedrock of reality. This conversation is strange, deep, and unforgettable.

Timestamps:00:00 Journey into Consciousness and AI

02:59 The Intersection of Neuroscience and AI

05:52 Understanding Consciousness: A Second Order Perception

08:53 Consciousness: An Evolved Property or Fundamental Reality?

12:03 The Concept of Spirit in Consciousness

14:56 Exploring Consciousness in Non-Brain Systems

18:00 The Nature of Consciousness in Organisms

21:12 The Role of Software in Consciousness

23:52 The Potential of Xenobots and Consciousness

37:06 Emergence of Artificial Life

40:12 The Nature of Consciousness

43:56 Comparing Consciousness Across Species

46:58 The Role of Social Structures in Consciousness

54:39 Biological Ingredients for Consciousness

01:10:55 Building Conscious AI

01:16:38 Exploring Ethical Constraints in AI Experiments

01:18:11 The Nature of Consciousness in AI

01:22:18 Comparing Consciousness: LLMs vs. Xenobots

01:24:19 The Binary Nature of Consciousness

01:27:01 Agency vs. Consciousness: A Complex Relationship

01:32:34 The Horrors of Conscious Existence

01:37:41 Concerns About AI and Society

01:40:14 The Role of AI in Society's Future

01:46:57 The Urgency of AI Development

01:51:03 The Future of AI and Society...

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