Outro

If your weekly calendar looks like the loser in a state fair quilt competition - just solid blocks of mismatched colors with no room to breathe - this episode is for you. Today, we're joined by facilitation expert Evan Unger to talk about a topic that Kate and Kim geek out over: meetings. Specifically, why most of them are terrible, how they drain organizational productivity, and exactly what you can do to fix yours.

We also tackle one of the most delicate situations in project management: how to handle the HIPPO (Highest Paid Person's Opinion) when they barge into your meeting and try to completely take over the flight controls. Grab a drink, settle in, and let's get into it.

• On owning your time: "If you don't own your calendar, you don't own your life." – Kim

• On the true cost of bad meetings: "If you're spending 50% of your time in meetings [that are less than 50% effective], you're literally going to spend a year's worth of your life and hours in meetings in under a decade. How organizations tolerate this, I have no idea." – Evan

• On visibility: "Every meeting is a leadership moment." – Evan

• On career survival: "We don't want to make hippos wrong because there's career limiting interventions. I mean, let's be honest, they have power and authority over us." – Evan

• On meeting math: "Nine things on an agenda in a 40-minute meeting is 4.44 minutes per agenda item. That's just not possible. It is better to end early than to run over." – Kate

• The Meeting Metaphor (Flying the Plane): Every meeting needs three phases. Takeoff (getting aligned), the Flight (the process/agenda), and Landing (saving 5-10 minutes at the end to secure next steps and accountability). Do not run out of fuel and crash. Leave time to land the plane.

• The POPRA Model for Meeting Prep: Don't accept or run meetings without knowing these five things:

• Purpose: Why are we here?

• Objectives: What are the specific deliverables or decisions needed?

• Process: What is the agenda?

• Roles: Who is the ultimate decision-maker? Who is the SME?

• Agreements: How will we interact and handle disagreements?

• The AREA Model for Taming the HIPPO: When a senior leader tries to bulldoze the process:

• Acknowledge: Validate their right to a point of view without necessarily agreeing.

• Reframe: Tie the conversation back to the project's purpose or objectives.

• Engage: Ask neutral questions to open the floor ("Would you be willing to listen to other perspectives on this?")

• Align: Bring the group's feedback back to the leader to help them make a better, more informed decision.

• The Power of Simultaneous Chat: To break the dominance of the loudest voices (and the HIPPO), ask a question and have everyone type their answer in the chat without hitting enter. On the count of three, everyone submits at once. This holds space for introverts, junior staff, and non-native English speakers to contribute without getting run over.

• Process is Your Shield: If a leader has a strong opinion, use process structure to ensure all sides are heard. Force the group to list "Pros" before "Cons," or use a timer to keep long-winded talkers (even the boss) in check.

• Connect with Evan Unger: Find Evan on LinkedIn (look for the blue/black check shirt and the impish grin, not the doctor!). Note: Evan is generously offering $2,000 off a seat in his training program for PM Happy Hour listeners!

• Books Mentioned: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team and Death by Meeting by Patrick Lencioni.

• Join the Conversation: Want to geek out about project management with us? Check out the PM Happy Hour membership site at https://www.pmhappyhour.com/membership.

• Say Hello: Hit us up on Facebook at PM Happy Hour or find our contact info on the website under "About Your Hosts."