In this episode, Samuel Arbesman welcomes back Edward Ashton. Edward is a science fiction writer and the author of numerous novels, including Mickey7, which served as the basis for the film Mickey 17. The two last spoke about Ashton’s novel The Fourth Consort, a compelling first-contact story, and he now returns to discuss his new book, After the Fall.

After the Fall is a delightful and thought-provoking novel set on a post-apocalyptic Earth where an alien civilization has settled on the planet and domesticated humans. Despite the premise, the book is surprisingly fun and funny, featuring a goofy alien who owns the story’s main human character. Ashton’s publisher sent Arbesman an advance copy, which he quickly devoured, eager to dig deeper into the novel’s ideas with its author.

Their conversation explores the origins of After the Fall, the concept of domestication and how we think—or perhaps should think—about it, and a distinctive feature of the alien species known as the Grays called “absenting,” along with its parallels in bull elephants. They also touch on the deliberately ambiguous future history of the book and venture into larger themes, including human mediocrity, the Great Filter, and humanity’s own self-destructive possibilities.

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