The '21 by 21' growth mindset and its costs

In this episode we sat down with David Royall, a pastor-turned-product-marketer at Subsplash to talk about:

• The toll that a growth-at-all-costs ministries take not only on pastors, but on members and volunteers,

• How sometimes it takes our spouses to help us see the dysfunction we’re living with and used to, 

• And a bit about what his life and career looks like after ministry.