What Doesn't Count as Evidence

In this episode, Anna Stokke explores what to do when a math program or education initiative doesn’t seem to work, but you’re told "research shows" that it does.

Drawing on her personal experience as both a parent and educator navigating “research shows” claims, Anna explains how parents, teachers, and advocates can ask for evidence, evaluate what counts as credible research, and respond when weak claims are presented with confidence.  This episode is based on a presentation she gave at researchED Toronto in 2025.

Anna unpacks common tactics used to shut these conversations down, including shifting the burden of proof, overwhelming people with endless references, credential deflection, and denying that poor practice exists at all.  She also offers practical advice for parents and educators on how to counter these tactics and spot and stop the spread of bad ideas in education.

This is an essential conversation for anyone trying to push for better practice in schools and navigate resistance along the way.

This episode is available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke

A Substack version of this episode, written by Anna Stokke, as a guest writer for the Center for Educational Progress is available at https://www.educationprogress.org/p/what-to-do-when-research-shows-shuts

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:01:35] What to do when something doesn’t feel right
[00:02:48] Why Anna got involved in math education advocacy
[00:06:38] Understanding the phrase “Research shows” in education
[00:07:01] The Wildfire Effect: How bad ideas spread
[00:09:25] How to ask for evidence
[00:09:57] Burden of proof fallacy
[00:11:04] Firehose Effect: Overwhelming you with articles
[00:12:16] Overcoming the Firehose Effect
[00:13:01] Credential deflection
[00:14:59] Gaslighting: When you’re told the problem doesn’t exist
[00:16:11] Evaluating the evidence
[00:17:50] Fuzzy terms: Critical thinking, conceptual understanding, number sense, curiosity, differentiation
[00:19:26] Become informed
[00:18:36] Resources that can help
[00:20:16] Final thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES 
Red flags in education research with Ben Solomon
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-cp5xt-156072c

Mailbag: Building Thinking Classrooms, number talks & more with Zach Groshell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-stw9g-186807f

Modern relevance in the math curriculum with Brian Conrad
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-gek66-148967a

RELEVANT RESOURCES
The Institute of Education Sciences Practice Guide
https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/practiceguides

The National Mathematics Advisory Panel Final Report
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED500486.pdf

Education Endowment Foundation
https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/

The National Center on Intensive Intervention
https://intensiveintervention.org/

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-70-transcript

MUSIC
Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band -  ColorFilmMusic

Website: www.annastokke.com
FB: Chalk & Talk
IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast
Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social