Toby Schiønning on "fair cop" and a new model for corporate campaigning
How I Learned to Love Shrimp
Outro
James and Toby give final thanks, and Toby shares where to follow Anima International and job links.
My guest today is Thorbjørn Schiønning, also known as Toby, who is the Director of Communications and Campaigns, and co-founder of Anima International. He’s been involved in animal rights for 15+ years, specialising in corporate outreach, campaigning and media work.
In this epsiode, we speak about the recent huge success for chickens in Norway – where the Norwegian chicken industry agreed to phase out fast-growing broiler breeds, affecting over 70 million animals, by the end of 2027 – the first time a country has taken such major action to help chickens raised for meat. More importantly, we spend a bunch of time discussing Anima International’s strategy when it comes to corporate campaigning, and why they’ve come up with a new term, “fair cop” which they feel is a better approach to the well-known concepts of good cop and bad cop.
Toby has lots of useful advice for anyone interested in campaigning and advocacy: why threatening big campaigns can be counterproductive, why more campaign groups should build a war chest of campaigning funds, why most campaigners should wait longer before escalating and much more.
I learned a lot about corporate campaigning strategy from this one and this is coming at a really critical time in the movement, both for cage-free and our work on broilers, so hope you all enjoy!
Chapters:
- (00:00:00) - Intro
- (00:03:04) - Should we block new farms?
- (00:08:19) - Norway’s breakthrough for chickens
- (00:16:06) - Why animal groups should focus on fewer issues
- (00:23:12) - Focusing on commitments vs implementation?
- (00:28:06) - What fair cop means
- (00:36:13) - How to campaign when you're in it for the long haul
- (00:47:25) - The value of patience & dialogue
- (01:07:43) - Anima's £1 million war chest for campaigning
- (01:13:39) - Poker, backgammon and developing good judgement
- (01:21:43) - Good news, recommendations, and where to find Anima
Resources:
- Jan's talk at the CARE conference on "fair cop"
- Toby's article on fair cop
- Anima Norway's announcement on broiler win
- Welfare Footprint on how important the BCC is for chickens
- Never Split the Difference - book on negotiation
- Anima international blog + careers page
With thanks to Tom Felbar (Ambedo Media) for amazing video and audio editing!
If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating and review us - it means a lot to us!
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