Intro

If you want to support our podcast please visit this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

The second in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Bodh Gaya, India, in February 2026. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined again by Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss the journey of the Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, before he reached enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree in Bodh Gaya. It covers Siddhartha’s early life, the various ascetic practices he tried, his finding of the middle way between extreme asceticism and hedonism and going through various stages of meditation and insight, to becoming the awakened one, and his first teaching.

Together, the three participants further reflect on the relevance of the Buddha’s journey to their own spiritual practices; the challenges of maintaining mindfulness and presence in the modern world; the importance of the sangha in the Buddhist tradition; and how the Buddha’s teachings emphasize the interconnectedness of all things.

About the pilgrimage:

In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice—one that the Buddha had suggested. 

Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.

Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.

To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit www.buddhapath.com, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions. 

Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia. 

He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.

---

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/  
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

---

Recording by Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth
Sound editing by Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com
Publishing by Anca Rusu
Produced by Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com
Executive Producer: Catalin Zorzini

---

List of resources 

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing  

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition 

Old Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-clouds

Kaundinya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaundinya

Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong 

Bodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_tree 

Bodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_Gaya 

Sujata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sujata_(milkmaid) 

Mahavira
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavira 

Kumbh Mela
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela 

Maulana Azad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulana_Azad 

Dalit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit 

Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths 

Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path 

---

Quotes

“We think we’re practicing for ourselves only, but there are invisible connections that we may not see. So your own practice, your own transformation, your decision-making can shift a whole lineage that precedes you. Without even doing much. It’s just some decisions; it’s almost like the turning of the dharma wheel, something in our whole lineage. And it’s true for a lot of my Western monastics; they might be the first in their whole ancestral lineage to be on the path of love and understanding. So you’re not doing this for yourself only, you’re doing this for your whole lineage.” 

“Everyone on this pilgrimage, in this room right now, sitting, I invite you to plant that seed to see that this journey is not yours alone. There’s a deep interbeing and it’s a weaving of past, present, and future.” 

“I got involved in activist politics, organizing big demonstrations, going to jail, organizing in a big way. But then I burnt out and found that I was very angry. And that anger was actually infusing my action, and I realized I was also part of the problem. So I had to find a way of being peace, not just fighting for peace.” 

“In the Indic civilizational system, at least in some traditions, and especially in the Brahmanical system – I don’t call it Hinduism – we have four stages of life. The first is what we call brahmacharya: the celibate life, when you’re a student. The second stage is the grahasthi, where you become a family person and have children and build up the family. And the third is vanaprastha: sort of a forest dwelling, but more like social work; your children are getting married and you get involved more in society, like a philanthropist. And the fourth stage is sannyas, where you actually leave the family, break your ties, and become, in effect, dead to the family and take the path of a monastic. So the Buddha is saying, ‘You don’t need to wait till you’re an older person. Start now. Don’t waste your life. The path of awakening can be walked when you’re young, too.’”

“Having children is courageous; you’re taking on responsibility for future generations, and that’s not easy. I feel that’s why we need a sangha of parents, friends. They say it takes a village, but it takes the global humanity, eight billion people, to create a civilizational shift. And that’s what we’re trying to do, to make the world a better place.” 

“Courage is a moment-to-moment act. It’s not just a moment; it’s each day we get up and say, ‘Okay, it’s a blessing we have this life for these 24 hours. Can I, in some way, make it better? Can I not make it worse? Can I enhance the life of people around me and keep being mindful?’ The word ‘Buddha’ just means to be awake. So how can we really be awake? We can be awake by being mindful: being attentive, breathing in, breathing out. That’s a moment of awakening, to be present. The Buddha became a full-time Buddha, but we can do it moment-to-moment, as little, part-time Buddhas. I think all of us can touch it – and that requires courage, too, to be diligent in our practice; it’s very easy to get distracted so we need to watch our mental state of irritation, anger, jealousy, whatever comes up. I have eyes to see – wow, that’s a miracle. That’s, again, a type of awakening. So I think this path is the path of courage.” 

“You can share the same bed with someone, but if you don’t share an aspiration, it can cause immense suffering.”

“The problem with the middle path is that it’s not a single line. It is an appropriate response to a particular situation. The middle part requires attentiveness, mindfulness, moment-to-moment. You might think drinking water is an appropriate action, but if you’ve had a stomach operation, drinking water might kill you. So something simple like that has to be appropriately done; the middle way is appropriate to time and place.” 

“We can’t start off on the middle path. We have to understand our suffering deeply in order to know the middle path, to know the two extremes in order to find that path.” 

“That’s why retreats are so important: we step away from the world to realize what our deepest aspiration is. And then we can go back with a new set of eyes.”