Equity Owns Companies, Tokens Own Products

Jason Calacanis, Ken Miyachi, and Mark Jeffrey compare venture equity with subnet tokens, framing tokens as liquid ownership of product infrastructure.

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Today’s show:

*TAO just had its worst week since launch. One of Bittensor’s most prominent subnet operators allegedly dumped $10 million in tokens and walked away. We’re digging into what we know, how this could change the Bittensor community… and why dedicated builders still believe in this ecosystem.

Jason and Lon are joined by Stillcore Capital Partner Mark Jeffrey to break down the Covenant AI and Templar controversy in real time. Then they’re joined by three prominent subnet founders: Ken Miyachi of BitMind (Subnet 34) and Will Squires of Steffen Cruz of MacroCosmos (which owns Subnets 1, 9, and 13). Together, they’re investigating how Bittensor incentives work, how real products are still emerging from the TAO ecosystem, and what governance fixes could arise to prevent the next (alleged) rug pull.

Timestamps:

0:00 Mark Jeffrey joins the show! https://x.com/markjeffrey

2:18 How Mark Jeffrey learned about Bittensor. https://bittensor.com/

6:17 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off!

7:22 Mark Jeffrey's Bittensor investments. https://stillcorecapital.com/

9:25 Check out our discussion with Nova: https://youtu.be/gjRt4eUyiYc?si=HopdmmSarxECark1

10:16 Sentry - New users can get $240 in free credits when they go to https://sentry.io/twist and use the code TWIST

10:41 Check out Ridges! https://www.ridges.ai/

11:53 How trading alpha tokens works on Bittensor

12:44 Subnet drama: what happened? https://x.com/covenant_ai/status/2042380152831951300

16:01 Do subnet owners have too much power?

18:33 Check out our conversation with Sam Dare (2268): https://youtu.be/TN2RmNuX4-k?si=c58Byh7Fsw1ttnAY

19:10 How Sam Dare should've handled walking away (per Mark Jeffrey)

20:02 Deel - Founders scale faster on Deel. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. Visit https://deel.com/twist to learn more.

23:29 Who should subnets be owned by?

24:02 Ken Miyachi from BitMind joins the show https://x.com/kenmiyachi

30:56 Netsuite - Get the free business guide Demystifying AI at https://www.netsuite.com/twist

31:06 Ken's $3M raise & investors (Arch, Canonical, Mechanism)

33:18 Token vs. equity: how to think about a subnet investment.

41:57 Will Squires and Stefan Kruse of MacroCosmos join the show https://x.com/willsquires https://x.com/sczsteffencruz

56:29 Stefan on the Covenant drama: "disappointing, but solvable"

1:02:11 Off-duty with J-Cal, Mark Jeffrey, and Lon Harris

1:02:48 Bieber vs. Carpenter: does Coachella owe you a spectacle? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp5O72WUqTk https://x.com/FashionXGirl_/status/2043251270509592936

1:15:20 Jason says Staples should pay the "Staples baddie" $1M/year https://www.tiktok.com/@blivxx

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