Introducing Jason Zengerle and His Book

In this episode of the Chuck ToddCast, Chuck digs into the political fallout surrounding Kristi Noem, Stephen Miller, and a Trump White House that remains intensely reactive to public opinion. While Noem keeps her job—for now—new polling paints a bleak picture for both her and the administration, with Trump’s economic numbers underwater, disapproval near all-time highs, and even his own base increasingly uneasy with ICE’s aggressive tactics. Chuck unpacks why Noem’s performative politics may make her expendable, why Miller is untouchable as Trump’s “bizarro Dick Cheney,” and how Trump’s inner circle is once again showing signs of instability as voters question whether the president is focused on the issues that actually matter.

The conversation then zooms out to a broader diagnosis of America’s democratic dysfunction, drawing on Chuck’s recent campus speech about why this moment feels uniquely unstable. From razor-thin modern elections and the collapse of congressional responsibility to unsettling parallels with 19th-century politics, Chuck argues that the presidency has become overly powerful because Congress has failed to govern. Fixing what’s broken, he warns, won’t come from political elites—it will require engaged citizens, serious institutional reform, and possibly constitutional amendments to rebuild a government voters have been loudly signaling they no longer trust.

Then, author and writer for The New Yorker, Jason Zengerle joins the Chuck ToddCast for a deep dive into his book “Hated By All The Right People” about Tucker Carlson’s rise—and why he’s become the clearest avatar for the unraveling of modern American conservatism. The conversation traces how Carlson’s personal history, elite upbringing paired with outsider grievance, and long-running resentments toward figures like Bill Kristol helped shape a worldview centered on anger, masculinity, and cultural backlash. Though he styles himself as anti-establishment, Tucker remains very much a Washington insider, increasingly influential even after leaving Fox News and emerging as the true heir to Rush Limbaugh, with real political impact on figures like J.D. Vance.

Chuck and Zengerle also explore how Trump subsumed conservatism, why Tucker may be the figure best positioned to keep Trumpism alive after Trump, and how white male grievance now sits at the core of conservative cultural politics. From the Iraq War’s role in Carlson’s ideological shift to his calculated positioning on Israel, media, and elite power, the episode asks what “real America” conservatism even means anymore—and whether there’s any path back for Never Trumpers, institutional Republicans, or business leaders who’ve bent the knee to a movement that no longer resembles the party they once knew.

Finally, Chuck answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment and expands on his Hall of Fame rant in light of Bill Belichick not getting in on the first ballot.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Chuck Todd’s introduction

07:00 Kristi Noem still has her job, but Trump is reactive to public opinion

08:15 Noem’s profile feels like someone Trump is willing to dump

09:15 Trump will never fire Stephen Miller

10:00 Miller understands how to work government like a bizarro Dick Cheney

11:30 Does Miller have a conservative vision, or is he just a reactionary?

13:00 Trump may use Kristi Noem as a heat shield

14:00 Noem’s theatrics have created terrible optics

16:15 New Fox News poll has terrible numbers for Trump

18:15 Numbers in the poll could spell doom for Kristi Noem

19:15 Only 61% of Republicans say country is better off today

20:00 Trump’s numbers on the economy are underwater

21:45 Trump’s disapproval near all-time highs

22:45 Voters don’t think Trump is spending enough time on the economy

24:30 Trump’s job rating higher than almost all the individual issues

25:45 59% think ICE has been too aggressive

28:00 Even parts of Trump’s base think ICE has been too aggressive

29:00 Support for abolishing ICE has doubled since 2018

30:00 Trump’s inner circle never stays around for long

31:00 If Fox runs the poll extensively on air, Noem is in trouble

32:45 Chuck’s campus speech on where we are now & how to get out of it

33:45 We may have grown up in a more stable outlier era of American history

35:30 The cold war kept both parties sober & more mainstream

36:45 Six of our 21st century presidential elections decided by 5pts or less

37:15 Politics today is more similar to the 19th century

38:00 We’re too occupied with the presidency due to congress failing

39:00 Congress is more occupied with keeping power than legislating

40:30 We aren’t getting out of this until congress becomes functional

41:00 We will need constitutional amendments to fix the democracy

42:30 The citizens will need to fix this, can’t depend on congress

43:15 Voters gave a primal scream that they wanted a better government

50:30 Jason Zengerle joins the Chuck ToddCast

52:00 Why Tucker Carlson is the avatar for unraveling of conservatism

53:30 Tucker was abandoned by his mother, how did that affect his journey?

54:15 That abandonment shaped his worldview about women

55:30 Tucker’s anger at Bill Kristol is a big part of his evolution

57:30 Kristol has become the stand in for media elites in Tucker’s mind

58:30 Tucker tried to be a younger, cooler version of George Will

59:30 Carlson is very much a DC insider, but portrays himself as outsider

1:01:00 Tucker wasn’t a rich kid, but was raised like one

1:03:00 Tucker & Trump similarly hung with the elite, but felt like outsiders

1:03:45 Tucker trashed Trump in texts while praising him on the air

1:04:30 Tucker was more willing to criticize Trump than other Fox hosts

1:06:00 Tucker wasn’t viewed as a top-tier personality at Fox for years

1:06:45 Fox News is bigger than the on-air personalities

1:07:45 Leaving Fox didn’t diminish Tucker’s standing, more influential now

1:09:30 Tucker is the true heir to Rush Limbaugh

1:10:15 Tucker was influential in getting J.D. Vance elected in Ohio

1:11:15 Vance & Tucker are very ideologically aligned

1:12:30 White male grievance is central to conservative cultural politics

1:14:15 Tucker believes what he says & has a larger project for America

1:15:15 Tucker is more Pat Buchanan than Rush Limbaugh

1:16:00 Iraq war was very influential in changing Tucker’s ideology

1:17:15 Tucker needled Jewish Neocon Republicans by criticizing Israel

1:19:00 Tuckers sees party energy is anti-Israel & getting ahead of it

1:20:45 What is the definition of conservatism in “real America”?

1:21:45 Conservatism has been subsumed by Trump

1:23:00 Will conservatism snap back to its prior form after Trump is gone?

1:25:30 Tucker seems like the figure that could keep Trump’s politics alive

1:27:15 Tucker says he’s not mad at the Murdochs but he is

1:28:30 Tucker didn’t agree to be interviewed for the book, why?

1:31:15 Tucker likes to bash the media, but he’s one of their favorite sources

1:32:30 Tucker left D.C. after protestors showed up to his house

1:33:45 Who are the “camps” that will fight for control after Trump?

1:34:45 Ted Cruz & Rand Paul are the only two non “blood & soil” prominent R’s

1:36:00 Trump is the least “MAGA” person in the MAGA movement

1:37:45 Where do the Nikki Haley, John Kasich type voters go?

1:38:45 Business leaders have bent the knee to Trump

1:39:45 Who in conservative media world was most willing to talk?

1:41:00 Tucker doesn’t spend much time talking to people he disagrees with

1:42:30 Tucker wants to go back to a male & white dominated society

1:43:45 The Never Trumpers won’t be taking back the party

1:45:00 What Jason is working on at The New Yorker

1:48:00 Marco Rubio’s evolution has been fascinating

1:53:00 Chuck’s thoughts on interview with Jason Zengerle

1:53:30 Ask Chuck

1:53:45 Who in real life is Veep’s Mike McClintock based on?

1:56:30 Impact of Native American voters on elections?

1:59:45 What signs will the GOP show if they think they’ll lose the senate?

2:03:00 The viral blue/yellow dress feels like a metaphor for politics

2:05:15 Any connection between income inequality and growing isolationism?

2:11:00 Why is Nathan’s Famous allowed to be bought by a Chinese company?

2:13:30 Hall of Fame rant

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