Second Order Solutions and Dave's role

Welcome to the finale of Collections Conversations, a new four-part podcast miniseries from Fintech Takes, sponsored by our friends at C&R Software.

The series digs into how generative AI is reshaping debt collections; what it enables, what it complicates, and why it might finally force the industry to retire the word “collections” altogether.

In Episode 4, I sit down with Dave Wasik, Partner at 2nd Order Solutions, a lending advisory firm that works across the lending lifecycle, helping lenders originate loans, manage credit on existing customers, and handle fraud, collections, and recoveries (in the U.S. and overseas). 

We start with the macro context Dave sees in his quarterly credit work. Delinquencies look stable across most lenders and asset classes, which is wild to believe given rising home rents, auto prices, restarting student loan payments, and consumer confidence reaching its 10-year low. Dave flags two yellow-orange areas: subprime federal student loan delinquencies that remain stubbornly high, and credit cards originated in early 2025 already showing early signs of performing as poorly as cards from 2022 (which was a rough year for just about every lender).

From there, Dave explains why collections breaks the usual testing playbook, before we get to AI. Dave breaks it into two buckets, collector-facing copilots and consumer-facing bots. Collector-facing copilots are farther along (in both tech and lender comfort) whereas consumer-facing bots sit in an awkward middle between self-service and human empathy, though Dave argues the shame of debt might actually make a bot preferable. 

Plus, he shares a mind-bending glimpse of the near future: bot-to-bot conversations negotiating collections outcomes. It’s a finale you won’t want to miss!

This episode is brought to you by C&R Software. 

More than just debt collection, C&R sets the global standard for AI-native, humanized credit management. They simplify the complex with end-to-end credit-risk lifecycle support, powered by automated workflows, AI-native intelligence, and real-time, data-driven decisioning. Learn more at https://hubs.ly/Q03Wl1DY0.

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Learn more about C&R Software here: https://hubs.ly/Q03Wl1DY0