Scaling isn't necessary for capability

"Our democracy is what’s at stake," says Karen Hao, an engineer who used to work in Silicon Valley. Now she’s an outspoken critic of its AI giants. The investigative journalist argues AI companies run their businesses like empires and it has to stop. In her 2025 bestseller, Empire of AI, Hao digs into the global impact of Big AI and explores how we need to rethink AI to build a better future. This podcast includes a lecture by Karen Hao and a discussion with host Nahlah Ayed.